General Developments

This programme sounds fascinating - will have to watch it on iPlayer (if I can get it in London). I think I will be much in the Jonathan Adams camp than the Prof Dai Smith camp. For much the same reason as Karl.

I wouldn't go as far as to suggest an active strategy of encouraging people to leave the Valleys. But at the moment we have a very active strategy which acts to encourage people to stay in the Valleys. Thats a combination of welfare and council housing; public sector employment; and grants and other things to encourage business to locate in these areas. All of these reduce the kind of mobility which would actually be much more beneficial for the economy of Wales as a whole. You can fight a rising tide, or build a boat so you rise with it.

One solution which ticks both boxes is improved connectivity between the Valleys and Cardiff. Another is building new houses in and around Cardiff and the M4 corridor to make it more affordable for people to move to these areas (its particularly harsh if you withdraw support from the Valleys without helping people move from the area).

But I think we also need politicians who are brave enough to say that times have changed - and that we can do more for Wales and Welsh people by building on the stronger and growing economies of the M4 corridor, rather than spending significant sums trying to overcome the evolving economic geography. We're talking about people moving or commuting 20 miles - its not like the broader UK-wide problem of London versus the rest. And while there is a fair bit of in-commuting to Cardiff its not as much as in other cities, and there's not as much from the mid-upper Valleys to the M4 corridor as you'd expect. Is it a legacy of the "big factory"/"big pit" type of employment we had in Wales? People living very close to where they work, and therefore finding even modest commutes arduous...

This programme sounds fascinating - will have to watch it on iPlayer (if I can get it in London). I think I will be much in the Jonathan Adams camp than the Prof Dai Smith camp. For much the same reason as Karl.

I wouldn't go as far as to suggest an active strategy of encouraging people to leave the Valleys. But at the moment we have a very active strategy which acts to encourage people to stay in the Valleys. Thats a combination of welfare and council housing; public sector employment; and grants and other things to encourage business to locate in these areas. All of these reduce the kind of mobility which would actually be much more beneficial for the economy of Wales as a whole. You can fight a rising tide, or build a boat so you rise with it.

One solution which ticks both boxes is improved connectivity between the Valleys and Cardiff. Another is building new houses in and around Cardiff and the M4 corridor to make it more affordable for people to move to these areas (its particularly harsh if you withdraw support from the Valleys without helping people move from the area).

But I think we also need politicians who are brave enough to say that times have changed - and that we can do more for Wales and Welsh people by building on the stronger and growing economies of the M4 corridor, rather than spending significant sums trying to overcome the evolving economic geography. We're talking about people moving or commuting 20 miles - its not like the broader UK-wide problem of London versus the rest. And while there is a fair bit of in-commuting to Cardiff its not as much as in other cities, and there's not as much from the mid-upper Valleys to the M4 corridor as you'd expect. Is it a legacy of the "big factory"/"big pit" type of employment we had in Wales? People living very close to where they work, and therefore finding even modest commutes arduous...

These are exactly the points I've tried to make on other sites, mostly on deaf ears.

I found myself disliking Dai Smith intensely.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one. I ended up shouting at the TV as he produced endless torrents of vacuous, sentimental, reactionary drivel. Did he actually produce a solution for the Valleys' intractable problems other than building better roads? Presumably the Welsh economic renaissance can be founded upon the production of hand-painted pottery and woodworking?

The fact that he's the next Welsh Secretary's dad hardly bodes well for the future.

I've just watched it, interesting programme. I completely agree with regards to taking sentiment (to a degree) out of these decisions.

There's been billions thrown at the valleys and they're still poor - it's time to try and come at this from a different angle. Invest in the metro, invest in regenerating larger towns like Pontypridd to take up some of the population moving south.

There's no future for large scale manufacturing that far north of the M4. Nobody is going the plonk a clothes factory in Treorchy anytime soon.

More on this -

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... ts-8879984

This is Leanne Wood's take on things. I like her and I think that she genuinely has the best interests of people in south Wales at heart but the response is depressingly hackneyed. Mention miners - check, miners strike - check, Thatcher - check, community spirit - check, collectivism - check etc etc.

Then her answer is mind blowingly vague -

"If the people of Wales give my party the opportunity to form the next Welsh Government, we will consult on and implement a plan to ensure the sustainability of communities like ours in the Valleys, and others with similar challenges elsewhere."

Consult and implement a plan? What type of plan? Will it differ from the umpteen plans that have been tried and failed in the past? How will sustainability (and in this context what does that mean?) be ensured?

This is on the day the IWA have confirmed in a report what we all know, namely that the Welsh economy lacks ambition -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-31966735

I think the comments of Gerry Holtham are apposite in connection with both the issue we are discussing here - the Valleys - and the wider economic issues -

"Prof Holtham added: "Ultimately, it is a political question for the people of Wales. Do we want to pursue modest sensible policies that will change our situation only very gradually?

"Or are we ready to venture something bolder with no certainty of success but some hope of making a faster change in Wales' circumstances?"

Nothing wrong with the valleys (focus on RCT like the documentary) as dormitory towns though the days of having thousands of jobs on the doorstep are gone. Invest in Merthyr, Aberdare and Pontypridd as hubs in the valleys but the bulk of investment should be on transport, helping people get from the tips of the fingers in Hirwaun, Maerdy and Treherbert to the palm in Cardiff. Cardiff is the driver for the region and not the competition which sadly some tragic, romantic valley types see it as. Let the valleys help house the workforce while Cardiff supplies the jobs.

interesting image in that it shows the completed office at capital quarter....oh and the new apartments as well on the dock feeder

There is a lot of fallow land all along the GWML

There is a lot of fallow land all along the GWML

That is very striking. Newtown was demolished in 1970 and here we are, almost half a century later, and most of that part of the city is still undeveloped. There's a PHD thesis there for someone!

I guess the thinking was that if you concentrated on developing the waterfront, the area between there and the city centre would gradually fill up. That seeems to be happening to an extent - but not at any great pace.

The old St James' church on Newport Road gets planning permission for conversion into 16 apartments:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/cardiff-church-apartments-conversion-tower-9053576