Central Square

I quite like the new building in central square. Bit like Admiral by the look of things.

It's out of date because of Interchange design as it stands is quite different to the above.

I think that Stage 4 and Stage 5 are just indicative schemes of what could go in those locations. I doubt any detail plans have been drawn up that's why the details look a bit bland and generic. I'm still interested to see who the Architect will be on those elements. RIO have done Stage 1 and it appears Fosters are doing Stage 2 and Stage 3. No word yet on the others.

Stage 4 (tower) is noted as being set aside for Student Accomodation and Private Rental and is being noted as "under design development". I'm wondering if Watkin Jones' recent announcement have put a spanner in those works. Personally, I think residential would be a mistake and I'd love to see a good-quality 20-storey office building, or somehting like that.

But if Stage 4 is going to start sometime in 2016 and Stage 5 in 2017, they better get a move on.
http://centralsquarecardiff.co.uk/#home ... nteractive

It's out of date because of Interchange design as it stands is quite different to the above.

Personally, I think residential would be a mistake and I'd love to see a good-quality 20-storey office building, or somehting like that.
http://centralsquarecardiff.co.uk/#home ... nteractive

A mistake commercially - or a mistake because you like the idea of a tall office tower? I think a 20-storey office building would be a big mistake commercially. Blue chip companies taking up sizeable chunks of space want, in general, large floorplates for open plan offices, break-out spaces, meeting rooms etc. Someone wanting 100,000 square feet, for instance, would much rather 7 floors at 15,000 square feet, than 20 at 5,000 square feet, say.

Smaller companies might be happy with smaller floorplates, but are they going to be able to afford the price required to make such a building economically viable? Tall slender buildings have less usable space given their gross size - as the lifts, stairs, plant, etc, that you need take up a bigger propotion of the building. Thats why they are expensive, and only really worthwhile when you have high rents and high demand in small areas - where you can't go out so you have to go up. Thats not Cardiff.

Less of an issue for resi, where there is often a preference for the views you get with high rise. And to a somewhat lesser extent for hotels and student resi I imagine. Thats why outside London, towes in the UK in recent years have been resi or hotel dominated.

I think a 20-storey office building would be a big mistake commercially. Blue chip companies taking up sizeable chunks of space want, in general, large floorplates for open plan offices, break-out spaces, meeting rooms etc. Someone wanting 100,000 square feet, for instance, would much rather 7 floors at 15,000 square feet, than 20 at 5,000 square feet, say.

As the username would suggest, I'm accutely aware of the commerical challenges of building tall structures. Yes, residential are easier due to the lower loads and hence, longer floor spans providing larger open floor-plates, with smaller and less frequent columns can be achieved. Moreover, commerical spaces require a greater floor-to-floor heights in comparison with residential, therefore you need more height for an equal number of storeys. But this isn't a residential scheme, it's supposed to be a landmark commericial/business zone, so let's show some ambition.

Take a look at the attached photos of Melbourne and Wellington, most of those buildings are office buildings for blue-chip clients. The latter is probably a more suitable comparison as it's population is only about 398,000, not too far from Cardiff's population. Wellington is great little city and one that Cardiff could do well to take inspiration from. It has a great mixture of old and new buildings and utilises it's waterfront really well.

Stadium House is 17 storeys, the very badly designed Capital Tower is 25, HM Governement Offices is 18 and Brunel House is 16. The recently competed Admiral HQ has about 245,000 sq ft over 11 storeys and is a very nicely done building. A building with that floor plate, consisting of a steel frame (hollow beams and ribbed deck) round a concrete core, is quite and efficient structure if designed properly and could easily go much higher.

So I don't think that a well-designed, landmark 20-storey office building for a flagship development in Wales' capital city is a ridiculous idea.

But the building in question is not something like a stretched version of the Admiral building - 20,000 square feet per floor. Its quite a slim tower, which might provide something like 6000-8000 square foot a floor. That is much less efficient when you start going high.

Now you could go chunky and tall, but I'm not sure that'd be that aesthetically pleasing. And, say 400,000 in a single 20-storey building would make it the bigger office building in Cardiff. About 3-4x bigger than anything that has been built recently. And a big, undiversified risk for any developer to take on.

So I think they are on the right track planning a mixed use scheme, with the tallest elements residential. Maybe its a shame we haven't got the right demand conditions and critical mass for tall office schemes. But I don't think its something to be embarrassed or ashamed of. Neither do Manchester, or Bristol, or Leeds or Glasgow or Edinburgh or Brum.

I appreciate the proposals suggest a much slimmer tower, but they do have a fair bit of land on that site play with, should they want to enlarge the footprint.

I think it is a shame that we don't have the critical mass yet and I feel that if Cardiff does take off in the next 10 years, we'll rue the day we didn't make more use of our inner-city plots. Yes, there's more do around Callaghan Sq. (with a tall building proposed) and there's a few things that can be knocked down, but this is development is the premere space in Cardiff.

Bristol has the Temple Quay area around the station that is seeing significant redevelopment and whilst they have a policy against tall buildings, I think they've got a bit more land to play with in that development. That, and they're an hour closer to London! So Capital Square really has to offer something special if we're looking for investment and companies to come from outside Wales.

I suppose (sadly!) I'd be happy with seeing high-quality architecture of between 10-15 storeys. RIO have made a great start with No.1 and I'm sure Fosters will provide something of quality. Capital Quarter has been a disappointment, I'd hate for the later stages of this development to follow like that.

Capital Quarter was always going to be of less quality. It's very much in a secondary location and can command lesser rents. I'm hopeful that that once fully developed the sum will be greater than it's parts. Sometimes it's preferable to have a set of buildings with complimentary massing and consistency in detailing set in a legible and good quality public realm rather than a bunch of statement buildings all trying to outdo each other.

And lest we forget Capital Quarter was previously full of light industrial units and garages.

I wonder what will happen when the crowds come to Cardiff for the 6 nations matches, as there doesn't seem much space for the fans coming from Cardiff central towards the stadium, will number 1 central square be completed so that fans can approach past it towards the stadium. going to be interesting how they manage the fans for these events.

I was thinking the same when walking from the station yesterday. There's just the narrow strip alongside Marland House which goes towards the stadium, and that feels pretty grim with a hoarding on one side and mostly boarded up shops and tramps on the other.

I reckon they will have a direct route sorted in front of the nearly completed Number 1. The portacabins are no longer occupied as the operation is now being controlled from the end unit of st davids house. Also I noticed having just passed, that the hoarded area is to be increased towards Number 1 presumably as Number 2 will be constructed at the same time as the BBC. It's a hive of activity at the moment! Regarding the Marland house walkway - this is becoming a real problem, and getting through without being asked for 40p for a bus home is quite a challenge!! Pretty grim indeed god knows what first time visitors to Cardiff must think oh well no pain no gain I suppose