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M4 Relief Road

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paul cardiffwalesmap

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Re: M4 Relief Road

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 1:49 pm

Simon__200 wrote:Scrapped! Well, at least the black route is.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48512697

Probably the right decision, and a very brave one by Mark Drakeford, a poison chalice left to make by him from the retiring Carwyn Jones.

I know people will go on about the millions already spent on consultations and surveys, but throwing good money at bad is never wise.


I'm looking forward to hearing more about this later - my gut feeling is disappointment as the problem still exists. Is Mark Drakeford making the case for another solution or just shutting down the possibility of what I thought was the only clear solution ie put the Bryn-glas tunnels out of the picture (or at least to the side).
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Simon__200

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Re: M4 Relief Road

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 1:56 pm

You're right, It is tempting to feel disappointment that one of the largest ever investment projects is not now happening.

However, if you had £1.4bn of cash, there is surely better use you can put it to than a 14 miles stretch of elevated concrete across a nature conservation area, as if there was no other solution. Especially after recently declaring an environmental emergency. That declaration would have looked like pointless lip service, if they'd followed through with this scheme.
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Shminky Binky

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Re: M4 Relief Road

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 2:19 pm

Simon__200 wrote:You're right, It is tempting to feel disappointment that one of the largest ever investment projects is not now happening.

However, if you had £1.4bn of cash, there is surely better use you can put it to than a 14 miles stretch of elevated concrete across a nature conservation area, as if there was no other solution. Especially after recently declaring an environmental emergency. That declaration would have looked like pointless lip service, if they'd followed through with this scheme.


That £1.4bn cash is only for the black route M4. The UK Government will now take away most of the £1.4bn on offer.
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Neil

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Re: M4 Relief Road

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 2:41 pm

It's alright saying what they're NOT going to do, but we need more detail on what they ARE going to do. We now have no tolls on the bridges and no motorway (to standard) between junctions 23 and 28.

I envisage that the road system around Newport will get overhauled and would not be surprised if they remove junctions 25, 25A, 26 (Westbound exit, Eastbound entry) and 27, to discourage local travel around Newport via the M4.

This would have course need to be in connection with better local public transport.
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Owen

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Re: M4 Relief Road

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 3:17 pm

Neil wrote:It's alright saying what they're NOT going to do, but we need more detail on what they ARE going to do. We now have no tolls on the bridges and no motorway (to standard) between junctions 23 and 28.

I envisage that the road system around Newport will get overhauled and would not be surprised if they remove junctions 25, 25A, 26 (Westbound exit, Eastbound entry) and 27, to discourage local travel around Newport via the M4.

This would have course need to be in connection with better local public transport.


Don’t hold your breath. Usual useless shite of setting up a commission to look at alternatives (more feet dragging) and targeted interventions to reduce congestion like more traffic officers and real time traffic information.

That is it! That is the entirety of what they have come up with
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Simon__200

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Re: M4 Relief Road

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 4:28 pm

Shminky Binky wrote:That £1.4bn cash is only for the black route M4. The UK Government will now take away most of the £1.4bn on offer.

Just because some of the cash is topped up central government, it doesn't mean it's free.
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paul cardiffwalesmap

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Re: M4 Relief Road

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 5:23 pm

Owen wrote:
Neil wrote:It's alright saying what they're NOT going to do, but we need more detail on what they ARE going to do. We now have no tolls on the bridges and no motorway (to standard) between junctions 23 and 28.

I envisage that the road system around Newport will get overhauled and would not be surprised if they remove junctions 25, 25A, 26 (Westbound exit, Eastbound entry) and 27, to discourage local travel around Newport via the M4.

This would have course need to be in connection with better local public transport.


Don’t hold your breath. Usual useless shite of setting up a commission to look at alternatives (more feet dragging) and targeted interventions to reduce congestion like more traffic officers and real time traffic information.

That is it! That is the entirety of what they have come up with


I maybe wrong but hasn't £40 million been spent on advisory info for Mark Drakeford to ignore and say he'd made his mind up not to build this road, regardless of advice to proceed with it. :| Still at least he's going to set up a commission so all is not lost!! :roll:
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LocalLurker

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Re: M4 Relief Road

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 6:05 pm

Stupid, short sighted grandstanding by Drakeford to appease the green lobby whilst harming the economy. If only Carwyn made the call before he left his post :x
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Cwlcymro

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Re: M4 Relief Road

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 10:04 pm

Shminky Binky wrote:
Simon__200 wrote:You're right, It is tempting to feel disappointment that one of the largest ever investment projects is not now happening.

However, if you had £1.4bn of cash, there is surely better use you can put it to than a 14 miles stretch of elevated concrete across a nature conservation area, as if there was no other solution. Especially after recently declaring an environmental emergency. That declaration would have looked like pointless lip service, if they'd followed through with this scheme.


That £1.4bn cash is only for the black route M4. The UK Government will now take away most of the £1.4bn on offer.


That's not correct. Wales has £1bn borrowing capacity which is currently untouched. The original plan was to use it all for M4. When the predicted costs rose to £1.3bn, Welsh government asked UK govt for the right to increase their borrowing powers by an extra £300m. UK govt said they would consider it because they wanted M4 relief road. This caused an argument as Welsh govt said that UK govt can't dictate what Wales' borrowed money is spent on.

Anyway, the current situation is that as far as I can see, the extra £300m borrowing capacity wasn't officially agreed, but was likely to have been OKd if the new road was built. WIthout the new road, there is still £1bn borrowing capacity that the Welsh government has at it's total control.
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DavidH71

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Re: M4 Relief Road

PostTue Jun 04, 2019 10:11 pm

A disastrous decision for the whole of south Wales. By all means improve public transport, but we need a functioning road network as well - neither can replace the other.

Sadly this did not come as a surprise, from the moment he became First Minister it was clear that Dithering Drakeford was not a fan.
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