Litter

It scares me that people would suggest banning Zach for his comment.

Nobody has suggested that.

Why don't you clear off from this place, no place for views like that.

Charming, pot calling kettle black etc. Sorry, was that a casual racist phrase as well?

There has also been articles in German newspapers commenting on how the refugees/economic migrants have scant regard or respect for German customs, in particular littering, even when litter bins are next to them.
The picture was pulled from a website that was commenting on the trail of litter that was left behind.

My experience is that the demographic make up in Cardiff has changed drastically in the last few years, but make any comment or connection that this maybe a reason for increase in litter (or sexual offences) and you are branded a racist.
People and the police were too afraid to tackle the Rochdale sexual grooming because they were afraid of being branded a racist.

I will leave you all to talk about how many new clothes shops have opened in Cardiff shopping centres and the like, enjoy yourselves!

Heh Zach there's no need to go? the only exit I thought you were going to make was off the top of Bayscape!!

Zach, I think the issue here is that you hijacked a discussion about litter problems, to make a political point on an entirely different area - and one that that is incredibly controversial, and prone to a lot of misinformation (on the one side) and a degree of censorship (on the other). You're bound to get a reaction.

When you are literally walking hundreds of miles across fields and along roads to reach safety you will drop litter rather than carry it with you. When you have been crammed on to a train after spending hours or days couped up in a station or holding area - you will again leave a mess. You carry only what you can. And you have bigger things on your mind. And if you feel you are being mistreated by the authorities - e.g. esp in Central Europe and the Balkans - you engage in small acts of rebellion like making a mess. Given there are hundreds of thousands of traumatised people on the move here, and many of them are young men, its actually surprising there isn't more crime following in their wake.

I think people also took offence at the undertone that this reflected the ethnic/racial/religious background of the people. You only have to go out in Cardiff city centre on a Saturday night (or after the World Cup!), or visit the tourist resorts where young Brits flock to to see we are just as able to cause a mess in our own and others backyards.

And you're right. Sometimes fear of being labelled racist can stop people speaking out or taking actio. But its not as big a problem as is sometimes made out. Look at the action on Female Genital Mutilation, or the efforts to tackle extremism in schools. And there are still problems (or at least perceptions of problems) working in the other direction - e.g. the greater use of stop & search powers on black people, and the lower % of those stops that result in any action being taken for this group (indicating its not all just risk-based).

So I think the reason you got your reaction here is that your arguments just aren't that strong. And even if you yourself aren't racist, the arguments and myths you quote are peddled by people who definitely are.

I thought zach was just criticising the magyar authorities for not having enough rubbish bins along the route

Why don't you clear off from this place, no place for views like that.

Charming, pot calling kettle black etc. Sorry, was that a casual racist phrase as well?

There has also been articles in German newspapers commenting on how the refugees/economic migrants have scant regard or respect for German customs, in particular littering, even when litter bins are next to them.
The picture was pulled from a website that was commenting on the trail of litter that was left behind.

My experience is that the demographic make up in Cardiff has changed drastically in the last few years, but make any comment or connection that this maybe a reason for increase in litter (or sexual offences) and you are branded a racist.
People and the police were too afraid to tackle the Rochdale sexual grooming because they were afraid of being branded a racist.

I will leave you all to talk about how many new clothes shops have opened in Cardiff shopping centres and the like, enjoy yourselves!

wow and you're still going with this...

you really are a silly little person.

Qualify your comment that Cardiff has changed it's demographic make up in the last few years and how this has correlated to litter and sexual offences please. Really when you sit back and read back what you're saying you must admit this is bloody nonsense.

BELLEND

wow and you're still going with this...

I wouldn't worry about it. Zach will be back in a few months, probably with a new user name.

He'll still be convinced that his privileged class, gender and race are somehow under threat from 'others'. If it isn't him, it will be someone similar.

We have to live with it, but well done everyone for calling him out.

Whatever happened to Freedom of Speech? Zach is criticised for his comments and yet the last two posters make personal attacks on an individual. Which is worse?

I am not happy with the way this Forum has developed and will join Zach in his leaving. Do not worry 'Ash', I will not return under an assumed name or otherwise. Oh, and will not 'monitor' the Forum further for one of your 'silly' responses!

Sorry, Paul. you did your best!

Come on linc, you can't leave because one or two found zach's post in poor taste. Zach is a strong enough character to deal with it. He's one of the best posters on here imho and this forum needs him and you.

Whatever happened to Freedom of Speech? Zach is criticised for his comments and yet the last two posters make personal attacks on an individual. Which is worse?

I am not happy with the way this Forum has developed and will join Zach in his leaving. Do not worry 'Ash', I will not return under an assumed name or otherwise. Oh, and will not 'monitor' the Forum further for one of your 'silly' responses!

Sorry, Paul. you did your best!

Oh Dear - they're dropping like flies! Anyway Linc, you'll be missed so I hope you reconsider? this isn't a place of perfection - it isn't heaven! and there will always be disagreements! But generally we share a common interest. Nevertheless if you do leave us, many thanks for your many postings and you will always be welcome on this forum - likewise to Zach.