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Charles Street Mixed Use Development with Tower

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paul cardiffwalesmap

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Re: Charles Street Mixed Use Development with Tower

PostSat Sep 09, 2017 6:46 pm

Cen wrote:Are we really claiming victories on one row of cladding? Even if you "predicted it", the cladding already looks much better than that mess of a building you posted.

We really shouldn't be so quick to judge. Even if it doesn't look identical to the renders, it still may end up looking good.


I agree...

I don't really understand the rush to rubbish this building - It's student accommodation not an HQ building of a top ten uk company, this is Cardiff not Canary Wharf. That doesn't mean that it's allowed to be terrible, but surely we need to be realistic? are we comparing it to Admiral or Ty Pont Heaern? Anyway the proof of the pudding etc.. so as this building is moving along pretty quickly it won't be that long before we know what we've got. Whilst it will be the tallest structure in Cardiff on completion, I'm really hoping that it doesn't hold that title as long as capital tower has. If posters on here are criticising the new hope tower cladding within a year then I for one will be very pleased!! :lol:
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Peiriannydd

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Re: Charles Street Mixed Use Development with Tower

PostSat Sep 09, 2017 7:14 pm

Karl wrote:I think there is a legitimate concern that the cladding appear to be of a completely different colour to the renders. It's a very big building which will be visible from around the city centre. The cladding is arguably the most important aspect in terms of visual effect. No-one wants a lego tower dominating their city centre.

Surely in projects of this magnitude examples of the materials are put before the planning officer/committee before the application is decided upon? If so then the building was always going to have this cladding and the renders are misleading or they have changed the colour of the cladding (at least for this part of the building) in which case the council must be able to intervene on the basis that the developers are acting outside of the scope of the permission granted?


I think you raise a valid point. The reality is that the CGI renders are usually presented to the Planning Committee as part of the planning application, but the final material samples are signed-off by the Planning Officer when they discharge the planning conditions. Rarely does the full committee sign-off on the full package of materials when they are giving planning consent. Personally I think these Planning Officers have too much power and quite often there is a variation between the proposed and final images.

The cladding forms a huge part of the project. I won't give specific figures but I've been advised that the cost of the cladding is approximately equal to the cost of the concrete frame! In fairness, everyone on the project has worked increadibly hard to push for quality on the cladding, even making savings elsewhere to pay for it. The effort that has gone into this student accomodation is like no other in Cardiff (or many other cities). I don't think Herbert St will look anywhere as good and that photo that Cardiff posted shows cheap, rainscreen cladding. This system is very different.

Two main technical issues blow the cost out on this package. Getting the 3D concrete panels (which look like Portland stone) into light-weight panels and forming the pressed-metal panels (for louvres etc). These panels are expensive as they are bespoke (necessary to form the require about of free area for ventilation etc.). That influences the material cost. The difficulty is that you can't have a difference in colour between the pressed-metal panels and the main front, which would happen if you varied the materials.

Numerous material samples were sent back and forth between the Architect, cladding suppliers and council, not to mention the complete sample panels that were formed ahead of the main production. The council have been fully aware of any "changes" and approved all of the materials used.

Sure, it may not be to everyone's taste, but the overall quality will be there to see and I think it'll age reasonably well.
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Zach

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Re: Charles Street Mixed Use Development with Tower

PostSun Sep 10, 2017 10:07 am

I just wonder if the obvious change in the cladding is due to the "Grenfell" effect?
The previous metallic effect cladding, looked great but maybe wasn't compliant, so they went for a fully compliant version but this came at a cost, so we have ended up with the dull orange finish to recoup the extra cost??

This is the original RIO architects sketch for the exterior cladding, specifying ACM (Ali Composite Material) without specifying the particular fire rating of the ACM which is to be used. The only mention of "fire" is for one of the metallic supports (20)
Standard (cheap) ACM failed the BRE tests post Grenfell.

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Cen

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Re: Charles Street Mixed Use Development with Tower

PostSun Sep 10, 2017 11:44 am

Good find, Zach.

I had a closer look today. It does actually look quite high quality and has a red-copper metallic finish. Not quite as dull/matte as the photos make out. It should look good once the sunlight hits it. I'm not worried at all.
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Cardiff

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Re: Charles Street Mixed Use Development with Tower

PostSun Sep 10, 2017 5:19 pm

I have seen it in person and i think there is a massive difference in colour and texture. I think there is a fair point to be made that the render in no way reflects the actual.

I was never confident that a student tower would look that great, but as the tallest building in Cardiff we dont want to end up with another carbuncle like the 2 in Leeds for example. Builds are made on their exteriors, my worry is that this is too bold a colour on too boring a design. This is just the podium section, it will be interesting to see the actual tower.
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amp

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Re: Charles Street Mixed Use Development with Tower

PostSun Sep 10, 2017 7:17 pm

Well looking at the podium cladding so far, i quite like what i'm seeing at the moment, i like the colours and looks better than most of the white, grey coloured buildings that seem to frequent Cardiff.

We have enough grey skies in Cardiff, so a bit of colour will look great, just like the 4 towers project on Newport road.
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Karl

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Re: Charles Street Mixed Use Development with Tower

PostMon Sep 11, 2017 4:01 pm

A well timed article in the Guardian on purpose built student accommodation -

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesig ... sing#img-1

Cardiff is being touted as an 'emerging market'. God help us.

Just as an aside does anyone know of any good quality, well designed and aesthetically pleasing purpose built student accommodation built in the UK in the last 10 years? I've snooped around the websites of all the leading players in this market and there are very few of these blocks that manage to get to the dizzy heights of 'bang average.' Are we kidding ourselves that the developers see Cardiff as being somehow special and that they are saving their best for us?
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Jantra

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Re: Charles Street Mixed Use Development with Tower

PostMon Sep 11, 2017 4:20 pm

student castle in M/cr is pretty impressive close up. it has an added bonus in that its built on New Wakefield Street, which was home to the greatest nightclub the world has ever known
I'd rather be no one than someone with no one.
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Cen

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Re: Charles Street Mixed Use Development with Tower

PostMon Sep 11, 2017 5:44 pm

The new student block behind the Mercure looks quite nice, in my opinion. I also think the flats at Capital Quarter have a decent look to them.
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daearegwr

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Re: Charles Street Mixed Use Development with Tower

PostTue Sep 12, 2017 10:50 am

Karl wrote:A well timed article in the Guardian on purpose built student accommodation -

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesig ... sing#img-1

Cardiff is being touted as an 'emerging market'. God help us.

Just as an aside does anyone know of any good quality, well designed and aesthetically pleasing purpose built student accommodation built in the UK in the last 10 years? I've snooped around the websites of all the leading players in this market and there are very few of these blocks that manage to get to the dizzy heights of 'bang average.' Are we kidding ourselves that the developers see Cardiff as being somehow special and that they are saving their best for us?


The one on Howard Gardens behind the Mercure holland house has been done quite well with its use of brick so should age quite well. But agreed thay most of them are awful. I walk past the one towards the end of City Road (the one with metal sheet cladding with porthole windows) and despair!)
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