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Bar News

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Thewasp

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Re: Bar News

PostFri Jan 17, 2020 10:45 pm

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wale ... h-17587647

Seems you are right. Stupid bloody landlords.
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Amoore

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Re: Bar News

PostSat Jan 18, 2020 12:24 pm

The landlords saying it would 'improve the balance' of what's on offer in the city centre shows how little understanding landlords have of the city centre.

I suspect what they mean is there's more money to be made from a restaurant downstairs and offices upstairs.
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Mr Blue Sky

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Re: Bar News

PostSat Jan 18, 2020 12:37 pm

10 Feet Tall is in a great location. I'd imagine it would be hard to replicate its success in, say, the former Wow building on Churchill Way. Which is a shame because the layout of that building would allow 10FT to set up with the bar above and club/live music below.
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Amoore

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Re: Bar News

PostMon Jan 20, 2020 3:54 pm

It's all kicked off.

Posted on 10 Feet Tall's social media and website today:

A statement from the 10 Feet Tall & Undertone family.



On Friday, we found out via a WalesOnline reporter that a planning application has been submitted to turn our premises and the premises next door occupied by Cornish Bakehouse into a restaurant and commercial unit. We had no notification about this from our landlord so this came at a great shock to us.



As of today, Monday 20th January 2020, the entire team of 10 Feet Tall including the management, bar staff and sound technicians will be resigning due to the actions of our company directors and their advisors. We never wanted to have to do this but we feel that we have no choice.



The directors have decided that they no longer want to have live music at 10 Feet Tall and want to completely close down our basement venue Undertone. Without any prior warning or justification, the directors have sacked two well loved and valued members of our team, something that we believe is incredibly unfair. Also, there have been continuous issues regarding missing payments and non-payments of staff and ex-staff members which has been a massive concern for us.



We love 10 Feet Tall but we feel that we cannot work under our present directors who have refused to have any communication with us regarding how we feel the venue should be run.

We really want our venue to thrive as a space for live music and the community and we had so many plans for the venue we wanted to unveil over the coming months but unfortunately, these are now unable to come to fruition.



We want to thank everyone who has attended 10 Feet Tall over the years from our customers to promoters, from DJs to bands. We are so sorry to everyone that had booked in future events at 10 Feet Tall and Undertone and we hope you understand our reasoning for having to do this.



Because of the actions of our directors and their advisors, two more homes for live music in Cardiff are now set to close. Bands, artists and DJs will lose yet another venue to hone their craft after the terrible losses of Gwdihŵ and Buffalo this time last year.



However, this is not the end for us. We are determined to fight this so another Grassroots Live Music Venue doesn’t have to close.



All our love,

The 10 Feet Tall & Undertone family
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LRcardiff

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Re: Bar News

PostMon Jan 20, 2020 7:19 pm

The 10 of them should work together to set up a new establishment. Get some support from a crowdfund.

Maybe even the old Wow venue like someone else suggested would be a viable location!
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LocalLurker

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Re: Bar News

PostMon Jan 20, 2020 7:33 pm

Do we know if the Gwdihw lot are being rehoused anywhere? Also when is the Clwb extension going to kick off?
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RandomComment

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Re: Bar News

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 2:59 pm

There is a lot of whining about the loss of live music venues, but if they were frequently well attended and well "customed" (not always the same thing), I don't think we'd be seeing the rate of closures.

Alcohol consumption is down in general - pubs are increasingly reliant on food revenues. This is somethign small live music venues aren't really set up for and can't really take much advantage of, at least during their 'peak' hours (noone wants to be trying to mosh while holding a plate of Hunters chicken). I've been told drinks sales are often quite poor at these venues too - people are busy watching (and perhaps filming) the music, and will try to come to the bar during breaks in sets, which means big queues, putting some of them off. And I wouldn't be surprised if growth of streaming and the cheapness of promoting and consuming music from home has meant live audiences for these smaller groups has fallen too.

So I'm not surprised they are struggling - they aren't getting the custom they need to be properly profitable. (In the sense that there are other occupiers waiting in the wings willing to pay more cos they'll make more).

One thing could help restaurants and especially bars in mid week in Cardiff: increasing reliance on public transport. Its notable in London more people have drinks after work with colleagues, friends, during weeknights. They can do it because they haven't got to drive and there is frequent and reliable public transport late into the evening. If the metro takes off and we see a proper modal shift to public transport, we might get more of that in Cardiff. Uber has also contributed to that in London but it doesn't seem to have had the same impact in Cardiff - last time I was there mid week in the evening, it was dead.
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Mr Blue Sky

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Re: Bar News

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 5:12 pm

RandomComment wrote:There is a lot of whining about the loss of live music venues, but if they were frequently well attended and well "customed" (not always the same thing), I don't think we'd be seeing the rate of closures.

Alcohol consumption is down in general - pubs are increasingly reliant on food revenues. This is somethign small live music venues aren't really set up for and can't really take much advantage of, at least during their 'peak' hours (noone wants to be trying to mosh while holding a plate of Hunters chicken). I've been told drinks sales are often quite poor at these venues too - people are busy watching (and perhaps filming) the music, and will try to come to the bar during breaks in sets, which means big queues, putting some of them off. And I wouldn't be surprised if growth of streaming and the cheapness of promoting and consuming music from home has meant live audiences for these smaller groups has fallen too.

So I'm not surprised they are struggling - they aren't getting the custom they need to be properly profitable. (In the sense that there are other occupiers waiting in the wings willing to pay more cos they'll make more).

One thing could help restaurants and especially bars in mid week in Cardiff: increasing reliance on public transport. Its notable in London more people have drinks after work with colleagues, friends, during weeknights. They can do it because they haven't got to drive and there is frequent and reliable public transport late into the evening. If the metro takes off and we see a proper modal shift to public transport, we might get more of that in Cardiff. Uber has also contributed to that in London but it doesn't seem to have had the same impact in Cardiff - last time I was there mid week in the evening, it was dead.


There's some truth in what you've written but you can't discount the effect that freeholders/landlords are having on the live music scene in the UK. The Mayor of London is taking action after London lost 35% of its live venues since 2007

https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/ar ... sic-venues
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RandomComment

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Re: Bar News

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 6:58 pm

But can you blame landlords and freeholders? If they have a live music venue that is whinging about rent and trying to get it cut, and others willing to pay more for the space, why shouldn't they? I mean we don't tend to say people should stay in jobs where they are underpaid in order to help the businesses employing them on said low pay. So it's never been clear to me why we should expect people earning capital as opposed to labour income to do that.

If as a society we decide that live music (or any other venue) is important from a cultural or other point of view, then society should stump up. That means if they are only able to pay sub-market rents, unless a private sector landlord is willing to forgo that income themselves, we should provide public space at subsidised rents, or top-up their rent to market levels.

Using planning rules has always looked like mandating the use of private money for public goods - in a rather arbitrary way.
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Mr Blue Sky

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Re: Bar News

PostTue Jan 21, 2020 7:11 pm

RandomComment wrote:But can you blame landlords and freeholders? If they have a live music venue that is whinging about rent and trying to get it cut, and others willing to pay more for the space, why shouldn't they? I mean we don't tend to say people should stay in jobs where they are underpaid in order to help the businesses employing them on said low pay. So it's never been clear to me why we should expect people earning capital as opposed to labour income to do that.

If as a society we decide that live music (or any other venue) is important from a cultural or other point of view, then society should stump up. That means if they are only able to pay sub-market rents, unless a private sector landlord is willing to forgo that income themselves, we should provide public space at subsidised rents, or top-up their rent to market levels.

Using planning rules has always looked like mandating the use of private money for public goods - in a rather arbitrary way.


No I don’t blame landlords. It’s just a shame that such widely-respected institutions such as 10FT and Gwdihw have been forced out, because they are cultural oases that are/were among the best in Cardiff’s history. One was tucked away, a so-called hidden gem, while the other is about as central as you can get. They have both played very important parts in Cardiff’s cultural life.

Hopefully 10FT will relocate to the old Wow. As for Gwdihw, its loss would appear permanent, just like its feathered friend the Toucan.
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