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I remember seeing this years ago but failed to track it down. Thankfully someone has just tweeted it. The original plans for Cathays Park complete with the magnificent parliament building and double domed museum.

Even earlier plans also included 4 blocks of ye oldie student accommodation, but were thankfully rejected in favour of the memorial park.

Ash wrote:I remember seeing this years ago but failed to track it down. Thankfully someone has just tweeted it. The original plans for Cathays Park complete with the magnificent parliament building and double domed museum.

I really wish we had built a proper parliament building in Cathays Park! Westminster is spectactular, Stormont is really nice, Scotland and Wales' buildings are a waste of money. Some people may love the whole modern architecture angle, fair enough, but that only lasts so long. What are these buildings going to look like in 20, 30 or 50 years in comparison with say Stormont?

The National Library should have gone there too, not in the middle of some farmer's field in Aberystwyth. Maybe it was different when we had more railway lines, but Aberystwyth is so isolated these days.

If Asquith and Lloyd George's plans for "Home Rule all round" hadn't been nobbled by World War I and the Easter Rising you could imagine a Welsh Parliament being built in Cathays Park in the 1920s, designed by Percy Thomas (or maybe even Edwin Lutyens), with sculptures outside by William Goscombe John. That would have been pretty amazing.

Still, there's no point moaning about might-have-beens, we're stuck with what we have and we move on from here.

Lyndon wrote:If Asquith and Lloyd George's plans for "Home Rule all round" hadn't been nobbled by World War I and the Easter Rising you could imagine a Welsh Parliament being built in Cathays Park in the 1920s, designed by Percy Thomas (or maybe even Edwin Lutyens), with sculptures outside by William Goscombe John. That would have been pretty amazing.

Still, there's no point moaning about might-have-beens, we're stuck with what we have and we move on from here.

Yes, these islands would be quite different had we not blundered our way into WW1. Instead, tragedy on epic scale.

But that aside, I really do think that architects need to consider the time effects on their designs. Architects in the 19th and early 20th centuries designed for permanence and modern buildings don't remain "modern" for their lifetime. I think this is important when designing institutional buildings.

Peiriannydd wrote:
Yes, these islands would be quite different had we not blundered our way into WW1. Instead, tragedy on epic scale.

You're getting on to tricky territory there. The causes of World War I were complex (much more so than World War II) and are controversial to this day. Its a story of 40 years growing rivalry between Austria-Hungary and Russia, the rising power of Germany that pushed France and Russia to become allies, and led (eventually) to the UK feeling the need to up its investment in its Navy and pick a side in the continental face-off. The UK had long wanted to remain aloof from Continental Europe (plus ca change) and was interested in maintaining a balance of power that stopped a single dominant power arising (to threaten the UK's global interests) and that it hoped would prevent a major war.

My take is that the UK was a reactive rather than proactive agent in the war. The proactive agents were Gemany and the prickly Kaiser; the Austro-Hungarian empire which was a timebomb waiting to go off; and to a lesser extent Russia, which already wanted to remake the map of Eastern Europe on more Slav-friendly lines. France was a declining power by this stage. And the UK had by far the biggest stake in the emerging global economy and financial system - which wasn't to be matched again until the 1990s, at least in terms of finance -, which a costly war was always going to screw up. The decline of the UK as a 'World Power' was significantly hastened by our switch from a massive creditor to a debtor in the two world wars (and the ruthless exploitation by the Americans who broke into new markets as UK industry focused on the war effort and then reconstruction).

Peiriannydd wrote:Yes, these islands would be quite different had we not blundered our way into WW1. Instead, tragedy on epic scale.

But that aside, I really do think that architects need to consider the time effects on their designs. Architects in the 19th and early 20th centuries designed for permanence and modern buildings don't remain "modern" for their lifetime. I think this is important when designing institutional buildings.

WWI is always an enormously complicated and controversial subject, but I'd tend to agree with RandomComment that we had little choice but to get involved.

As to the relative "impermanence" of modern buildings, we tend to forget that the Victorians were perfectly happy to throw up a building, use it for 20 or 30 years then knock it down and put up something bigger and better. The old buildings we see today have an air of permanence because they've survived a pretty ruthless Darwinian selection process. I'm sue buildings from the last few decades will still be around in 2116, I'm not quite sure which ones though. The Senedd and the Wales Millennium Centre surely?

Lyndon wrote: I'm sure buildings from the last few decades will still be around in 2116, I'm not quite sure which ones though. The Senedd and the Wales Millennium Centre surely?

They could both be underwater by then! It's a good guessing game though. Here's my stab at it.

Newish buildings likely to remain -

WMC
Senedd
Many apartment buildings because of the cost of buying out the leases
Saint Davids Two (but probably not the original centre)
WCMD and some of the better university buildings

Newish buildings likely to go

Mermaid Quay
Red Dragon Centre
Stadium Plaza
Roath Lock studios

BTW I Love Zach's reimagined Cathays Park - do it now!!!!

RandomComment wrote:You're getting on to tricky territory there. The causes of World War I were complex (much more so than World War II) and are controversial to this day...

My take is that the UK was a reactive rather than proactive agent in the war...

I’m sure we could get into endless arguments about the causes of WW1 and how Britain conducted itself at the time, as could many professional historians. But that's not the basis of this forum.

That said, and without meaning to offend anyone or get into a complicated historical arguement, I personally don’t buy into the view that Britain was dragged into war, completely blameless. Britain's position c.1914 was untenable and our truly global empire brought us into political or military conflict with too many different parties, with different agendas. Imperial security relied largely upon bluff and the goodwill of our allies established in treaties, which often conflicted and upset other allies or even our own Dominions. We tried to placate or counteract too many countries and ultimately failed. Could war have been avoided? No I don't think so, but you have to wonder if we could have done something more to minimise our involvement and the bloodshed.

Ash wrote:
They could both be underwater by then! It's a good guessing game though. Here's my stab at it.

Newish buildings likely to remain -

WMC
Senedd
Many apartment buildings because of the cost of buying out the leases
Saint Davids Two (but probably not the original centre)
WCMD and some of the better university buildings

Newish buildings likely to go

Mermaid Quay
Red Dragon Centre
Stadium Plaza
Roath Lock studios

BTW I Love Zach's reimagined Cathays Park - do it now!!!!

OK, a few more suggestions:

St David's Hall, major cultural venues are unlikely to be torn down willy-nilly, and this is a nice bit of 80s architecture. I see a listing coming up in the not too distant future.

Welsh Government offices Cathays Park, unlikely to be replaced on cost grounds alone, but again a nice building of its time, could be listed in future.

Magistrates' Court, big solid building, doesn't look like it's going anywhere in a hurry.