It is currently Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:24 am


Cardiff airport

if it's about Cardiff.. Sport, Entertainment, Transportation, Business, Development Projects, Leisure, Eating, Drinking, Nightlife, Shopping, Train Spotting! etc.. then we want it here!
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Frank

  • Posts: 324
  • Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:54 pm

Re: Cardiff airport

PostSat Jun 15, 2019 5:59 pm

Of all the taxes to devolve APD seems to me one of the stupidest. It's the sort of tax you can imagine the EU commission wanting to harmonise!

I'm completely with RC on this. I'm amazed regional English MPs would support it.
Offline

jonnywill25

  • Posts: 208
  • Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:40 pm

Re: Cardiff airport

PostFri Sep 06, 2019 2:35 pm

Bad news... Devolution of APD has been rejected by Westminister.

https://www.business-live.co.uk/regiona ... r-16877179

The reaction from Cardiff Airport CEO:

https://www.cardiff-airport.com/news/20 ... -to-wales/
Offline

Thewasp

  • Posts: 8
  • Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:20 pm

Re: Cardiff airport

PostFri Sep 06, 2019 10:16 pm

Ridiculous!!
Offline

Cwlcymro

  • Posts: 79
  • Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:17 am

Re: Cardiff airport

PostMon Sep 09, 2019 9:59 am

The fact that the government didn't even try to pretend that the decision wasn't made to protect Bristol at the expense of Cardiff - at least they're honest! Westminster doesn't give a crap about Wales.
Offline

RandomComment

  • Posts: 846
  • Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:50 pm

Re: Cardiff airport

PostMon Sep 09, 2019 10:53 am

Cwlcymro wrote:The fact that the government didn't even try to pretend that the decision wasn't made to protect Bristol at the expense of Cardiff - at least they're honest! Westminster doesn't give a crap about Wales.


It doesn't imply that the UK government / Westminster 'doesn't give a crap about Wales' at all.

At the most it lets us say: Westminster doesn't care more about Wales than Bristol. Because devolving the powers to Wales would imply it cared more about Wales than it did about Bristol. It would take the market for aviation and tilt it in favour of Cardiff through govt intervention.

The arguments for devolution have always been dubious. Whether its overcrowing in S. E England (possibly an argument for lower rates of APD outside S. E England, not really devolution to Wales); the 'under-utilisation' of Cardiff Airport (hey, the market is telling us something there). Not to mention the fact that after cancelling the M4 relief road as a result of a "climate emergency", it would be rather interesting to cut APD to increase air traffic: mile for mile, the worst contributor to greenhouse gas emissions.

More generally, its a bad idea to devolve taxes where one of the primary responses is to shift taxable activities between jurisdictions. So corporation tax is bad to devolve as companies and especially their profits are highly mobile. Devolving personal income tax is much less bad, as people aren't as mobile and their incomes are taxed based on where they love so they can't "income shift" (between jurisdictions, at least - although 2nd home owners can be a bit of an issue). Property taxes are the best for devolution as property is literally stuck in a jurisdiction - caravans not withstanding!

The issue is that devolving taxes with highly mobile tax bases can lead to downwards pressure on tax rates as jurisdictions compete over that tax base. Tax revenues can then be lower everywhere.

And in the UK we have assymetric devolution. Wales, Scotland and NI have devolution. England does not. And because England is so much bigger than the other countries you could get situations where Wales, Scotland and NI use their devolved powers to undercut England. But for England as a whole, it does not make sense for the UK govt to respond to that competition - because the loss of revenue would be too great.

Being small can sometimes be a benefit in matters of tax - hence the low tax rates of Ireland, Luxembourg, all the British overseas territories. You can gain, but its too costly for the big boys to play the same game.

Some people may say "great" - a winning strategy. But what if you care about people other than yourselves? And what if you look at a wider perspective.

Like it or not, Wales gets about £13 billion a year more public spending than it pays in taxes. England on the other hand lets less spent on it than it pays in taxes (within England the North gets more spent on in than it pays; the South lets less).

My worry is that the English will come to resent Wales (and Scotland and Northern Ireland) if we are constantly using devolved powers to compete and undercut England. And that £13 billion is a much bigger issue than the potential boost from cheaper flights to/from Cardiff.
Offline

Rhodri

  • Posts: 225
  • Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:23 pm

Re: Cardiff airport

PostMon Sep 09, 2019 11:57 am

The disparity of how the UK state treats devolition cultivates the idea that England may resent Wales and the other two. If England wants devolution then they should be encouraged all the way.

As it stands Devolution has been 'set up' as a British construct. This decision says everything about that construct.
Offline

cardiffian

  • Posts: 38
  • Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:07 pm

Re: Cardiff airport

PostMon Sep 09, 2019 5:08 pm

Great Post RandomComment.

Also if wales was to bring in a Personal wealth taxes England is only a few minutes down the road, many people will just sell up and move across the border.
I'd rather the UK works together and only devolves power on issues that are truly local.
Offline

Simon__200

  • Posts: 251
  • Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:07 pm

Re: Cardiff airport

PostTue Sep 10, 2019 9:10 am

I would also like to endorse RandomComment's view. The last thing we want is competition against airports for APD. A race to the bottom would not only lead to a net reduction for everyone, but also wipe out any environmental incentive.
Previous

Return to Cardiff Wales Map forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests