Cardiff airport

I believe it to be a 'chicken and egg' situation. Jantra is right about the need for more routes but there has to be incentives there for airlines to invest in those routes. There has to be investment in the infrastructure which will support the airport. Not just 'bendy-buses' but giving the airport a 'professional 'look' which it doesn't have at the present. Which should/will come first is anybody's guess. Therein lies the problem. Someone has to take the first move and the WG would have to take risks if it is to make the first move - something it has 'shied away' from in the past'

I used to live near to Shoreham Airport in Sussex. The way it is going, that is the way CWL is heading!

Karl - The main reason being because other parts of the UK were focusing on the route development of the privately owned airports on their geographical patch (eg Scotland in particular) so we should have been also.

Are you saying that the UK govt was concentrating on route development in England during the 1999 to 2014 period? Or that individual councils were? Or that the private owners of airports were? Or a combination of all three?

If an airport is owned by a private company surely they have responsibility for route development? If they are not interested (as Albertis clearly weren't) how can the WG either force them to be interested or develop routes independently of the airport's owners?

I'm just not getting this. CWL has been in private hands for 30/40 years? And yet it's failure to, ahem, take off has been down to the WG who bought it 2 years ago? I think it's trite and lazy to simply blame the WG, they may have been asleep at the wheel (it wouldn't be unknown) as they grappled with devolution in the early noughties but surely the lions share of responsibility must lay with it's former owners?

Again I ask what is it that the WG can do (with it's current resources/powers) that it isn't doing at the moment? I'm not suggesting that there isn't anything else they can do but I'm genuinely interested as to what that is. It's easy to say we need more routes,a shiny state of the art terminal building and excellent transport links but it's not easy to say how that is achieved.

Karl

As long as this forum has been going we have all appreciated the various shortcomings of the airport. If we could see it then why not WG? Why did they take so long to see CWL needed owners who had a vested interest in making it work.

The facts are that the market doesn't think that CWL is a sustainable or profitable airport and this has been known about for years. The ire most have with WG is, as you have pointed out, they were asleep at the wheel. If WG Intervened a bit earlier when pax numbers were broadly similar then CWL might have had a fighters chance but as it happens BRS is now an airport six times the size of CWL.

I'm just not getting this. CWL has been in private hands for 30/40 years? And yet it's failure to, ahem, take off has been down to the WG who bought it 2 years ago? I think it's trite and lazy to simply blame the WG, they may have been asleep at the wheel (it wouldn't be unknown) as they grappled with devolution in the early noughties but surely the lions share of responsibility must lay with it's former owners?

Again I ask what is it that the WG can do (with it's current resources/powers) that it isn't doing at the moment? I'm not suggesting that there isn't anything else they can do but I'm genuinely interested as to what that is. It's easy to say we need more routes,a shiny state of the art terminal building and excellent transport links but it's not easy to say how that is achieved.

I agree with your first point, Karl.

As far as the WG is concerned in can offer public subsidies to develope new routes. I believe I'm right in saying that the subsidies are allowed for the first three years of an operation. There's £13m in the the WG 2015/16 budget to subsidse new routes. It's up to the airport board to draw down those funds and offer them to airlines.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-30107474

Your anti-devolution and anti Welsh language rants are getting a bit boring.......

I don't necessarily agree with everything Zach posts but, who knows, perhaps if you removed the blinkers you might just see another point of view other than your own?

I'm happy to listen to other points of view - but while Zach in entitled to his own opinions, he's not entitled to his own facts. I simply challenged him to provide evidence for his assertion - something he has singularly failed to do.

Here's what Zach said.

I heard either Carwyn the stupid say how we could get more Ryanair plans based here, citing the Tenerife example, which he obviously didn't quiet understand! Ahh yes we have a 737-800 sitting on the tarmac all week at Cardiff and lets fly to Tenerife once a week.

I don't think Carwyn said that. I think Zach made it up.

I may be wrong. If I am I'll apologise - but I think Zach should put up or shut up.

@Ash
I notice you're not challenging Zach's fact that a fitting sobriquet is 'Carwyn the stupid'

Was out the country and guess where I didn't fly from?

I may be wrong. If I am I'll apologise - but I think Zach should put up or shut up.

Not every radio interview has full transcripts available online. It could have been a Jones' WAG spokeman, but none the less Ryanair basing an aircraft and Cardiff Airport were in the same sentence. It was probably a slip of the tongue but I screamed at the radio in the car when I heard it.

Yes I am anti devolution, in a big way. Why does Carwyn the stupid think that a No vote in Scotland mean that people in Wales want more devolution?
The 1997 vote/turnout and the turnouts at the four Assembly Elections suggests there is not much appetite for devolution.

Zach - you are entitled to your anti-devolution view. But the last referendum and every opinion poll on the subject shows that you are in a small minority. There is a broad consesus that Wales should have more powers not less.

I was going to say the same. Initially Wales was very much divided - it was what, 50.3, 49.7 back in the 1997 referendum. Now, Wales seems quite firmly behind devolution, and potentially more powers. Survey evidence is interesting though - people like the idea of more powers, but when they are asked whether they like the idea of differences in policy between England and Wales (e.g. different income tax rates) they are a lot less keen. Devolution isn't always about different policies - especially in tax its more about accountability and incentives to grow the economy - but still shows people don't really think fully rationally on this issue.

On the airport, I think the main problem was that it seems the Welsh Govt overpaid. They wanted to do a deal and the former owners were able to take advantage of that. They got an appraisal of the value of the airport, which apparently said the agreed price represented value for money - but I'm not convinced given the need for subsidised loans, route development, capital investment etc. Although would have to look at the accounts. They paid about £55 million I think. On a typical P/E ratio, profits of around £3-4 million might be fair. I guess if you expect profit growth as well, current profits might even be lower and it still represent good value. But I do worry Cardiff will find overcoming Bristol's economies of scale difficult - especially in the low cost market. I'd like info on how many city breaks people take though. I think people in South Wales take far few city breaks and short holidays than people in S. East England, even if you control for income. Probably because fewer flight options available. Could that be a market for the airlines and Cardiff Airport to tap into?