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Re: Central quay

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:26 pm
by Ash
Amoore wrote: I say this as someone in this industry - I can't see a positive outcome from 50 new bar/restaurant units, even if some of those were coffee shops/Greggs. Even at best, if the units were snapped up and the area became the place to go at night, the city centre would be decimated.


Well that would certainly be the case if the size of the market were to remain static. Completion of the whole Of Central Quay has to be at least five years away though, by which time the city's population will have risen by around 25,000 if you believe LA projections. On top of that the number of people visiting the city is currently increasing by around 5% per annum.

Fifty is a very ambitous number though. If the current trends away from casual dining continue, that could well be cut as the scheme progresses. What we certainly don't need is the sort of problem they had around the marina in Swansea where catering units remained empty for decades.

Re: Central quay

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:12 pm
by RandomComment
A couple of thoughts.

1. Does the number include the 'street food' style stalls proposed for the Market Hall in the base of the Ledger building? If so that could eat up (ahem) a bunch of the 50.

2. It could just be part of the marketing guff that accompanies any new development. Talk about mixed use, active street frontages, etc etc. The likes of DCfW, the council, hell, a lot of people on this board.. push for that kind of thing. So when building momentum behind a project you talk up these credentials. You then try to backtrack a little bit when you go through detailed planning permission. And as a developer you probably tolerate having a fair number of these units being empty if you can secure significant numbers of pre-sales of flats and pre-lets of office space. Why? Because you can probably increase your chance of planning permission, increase the return on the flats and offices... and its only later on people realise a lot of the empty units aren't going to be used, at which time you convert them into something else.

I'm actually more worried about the viability of the Market Place during the construction period. For quite a while you'll have basically one office building (albeit a large one) and a uni campus. I think compared to London, a lower proportion of office workers and students would eat out at lunch time. And the area will, at this stage, still be cut off from the wider city centre and office development at Central Square. So where will all the customers come from?

Re: Central quay

PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:37 pm
by Frank
I know British Gas have their own in-house canteen facillities. Not a bad idea.

Re: Central quay

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:01 pm
by Amoore
RandomComment wrote:2. It could just be part of the marketing guff that accompanies any new development. Talk about mixed use, active street frontages, etc etc. The likes of DCfW, the council, hell, a lot of people on this board.. push for that kind of thing. So when building momentum behind a project you talk up these credentials. You then try to backtrack a little bit when you go through detailed planning permission. And as a developer you probably tolerate having a fair number of these units being empty if you can secure significant numbers of pre-sales of flats and pre-lets of office space. Why? Because you can probably increase your chance of planning permission, increase the return on the flats and offices... and its only later on people realise a lot of the empty units aren't going to be used, at which time you convert them into something else.


I think this is the most realistic scenario.

There's no mention of consultation with South Wales Police and I'm sure they'd have something to say about having to police 50 extra licensed premises. Considering the Cumulative Impact Policy is up for review again in 2020 (I think!) I'd be surprised if it wasn't extended to this development.

Re: Central quay

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:33 pm
by Simon_SW17
Amoore wrote:I believe EAT is closing, Red Hot lies empty and I'm assuming the long overdue Thai restaurant in the old Armani Exchange has fallen through as its been quiet on that front for a while. There's still a unit that hasn't ever been used, and there are several units that have failed including Ruby Tuesday, Bellinis and Toby Carvery. Granted, those have been replaced and their failure could be for many reasons unrelated to the centre but the overall picture painted is not one that suggests 50 new restaurant/bar units would be a good idea.

As far as Brewery Quarter is concerned, I don't go there that often either (who does?), but I believe the former Lava Lounge unit is empty and last time I went there a smaller unit between Yard and Porto Due (used to be called Jam Jar I think).

I say this as someone in this industry - I can't see a positive outcome from 50 new bar/restaurant units, even if some of those were coffee shops/Greggs. Even at best, if the units were snapped up and the area became the place to go at night, the city centre would be decimated.


Many of these closures are not related to over supply, more individual company problems and in the case of St. David's, their eye watering rents. During times of uncertainty many businesses won't take the risk of taking on units which cost hundreds of thousands pounds in rent a year. Byron seems a prime example of company issues and rents combined, they've pulled out before even opening.

Having said that I agree that 50 new bars & restaurants is a little ambitious. There would however be no point in planning a handful as the development wouldn't become a destination. I think 50 including shops may be more realistic.

Re: Central quay

PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:49 pm
by Mr Blue Sky
Here’s a report from Deloitte on eating out/casual dining from last September. It is a pdf so will download.

https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/D ... market.pdf

Re: Central quay

PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:08 am
by Kyle
Ash wrote:
amp wrote:Right I feel like a list. A list of possible companies taking offices in town.

Companies house
Legal and General
Cardiff county hall
DWP department
Network Rail
DoJ

Not a big list really. What is required are new businesses or companies that are new to Wales and or Cardiff.

What other companies based in Cardiff that can move central?


There's also the un-named inward investor which is considering locating above the new bus station.

The thing is we seldom know about companies that are new to the area until they're announced. I doubt whether Rightacres and JR Smart would be so bullish about the market unless there was a pipeline of potential tenants. Neither company has a track record of mad speculative builds.


Forgot about this one, and not a big occupier, but Howells solicitors are probably on the list considering their current office is meant to be redeveloped into student towers (not heard anything about that since approval actually).

Re: Central quay

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:57 pm
by DJKiran
I may do a time lapse of its construction. Seems like it will look fantastic when done, so a time lapse of it construction will be spectacular.

Re: Central quay

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:49 pm
by Philnpt
A full planning application has been submitted for the first phase
Including a multi story car park and the ledger office building
https://planning.cardiff.gov.uk/online- ... APR_123278
Hopefully we will be seeing some work on site soon

Re: Central quay

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:17 pm
by DJKiran
It's going to be some time yet. At least after May 19th. https://i.imgur.com/a/QGH4acf.jpg