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Porth Teigr: Royal Naval College

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Jantra

Re: Porth Teigr: Royal Naval College

PostThu Dec 08, 2016 10:17 pm

there you are. most welsh seem themselves as being welsh not English but not in a nasty way. we are welsh, the English are English. we have more in common and the petty nationalists aren't going to ruin it
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Mr Blue Sky

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Re: Porth Teigr: Royal Naval College

PostThu Dec 08, 2016 11:36 pm

Peiriannydd wrote:
Mr Blue Sky wrote:Not the brightest?

Having spent half my nearly 50 years living in England I can tell you that the English are just as nationalistic as the Welsh. And they are much more comfortable flitting between English and British nationalism than most people in Wales are. The terms "English" and "British" are used interchangeably by many of the natives in a way that just doesn't happen in Wales.


I didn't say the English weren't nationalistic, they are! I've lived in England long enough to appreciate that. But I stand by my comment that the concept of Englishness has been used interchangeably with Britishness for so long, that the English are the one's who have lost their individuality. That's half of the problem with this rise in English nationalism since devolution. It's the English who feel they've lost their voice and their identity whilst us Welsh and Scottish exert ours.

I also stand by my comments that it's not the English who are holding us back anymore. I'll admit, I used to think the opposite until I studied and worked in England afterwards. Most English people know little and care less about Wales (and Scotland for that matter). Sure, they not that keen to do anything for us and they favour their own, but there's no grand conspiracy to hold us under an imperial boot. Westminster gave Scotland the vote on independence and unlike Brexit, that referendum was legally binding! Shows how concerned they really were about the break up of the UK.

Seriously, ask yourself why Wales got a second-class devolution settlement to Scotland? Who are the ones who have pushed for more political autonomy? Should we blame England for the Welsh apathy towards ruling ourselves? Look how quickly those oppressed under the Soviet Union or British Empire siezed their opportunity for "freedom". Or culturally, how many Welsh people care about speaking Welsh? Yeah, the Welsh not, blah, blah, blah! Welsh has been taught in schools for how many years now? How many Welsh evening classes are out there for adults to attend? Do the majority of Welsh people really care enough to do something about it? No. Who can we blame for that? Ourselves.

Yeah, there are plenty of 80/90-minute patriots in Wales when the rugby/football is on, but few out there who really want to make a difference and stand up and be counted. So lets cut the chippy nationalist crap and stop pretending that we're still oppressed by the English.

Incidently, those who resort to personal insults have typically lost their argument. There's no need for that.


I haven't insulted you, you wrote "the brightess" in the post I quoted, which I then bolded in my quote. Calling my attitude "Chippy nationalist crap" is quite insulting though.

Wales got a second-class devolution settlement because Wales is more integrated with and closer to England, as well as having proportionately three times as many English-born residents as Scotland has. By the way, Welsh classes are not free.

I think that there is a millennia-old open conspiracy to wed Wales to England. Of course there is. If Wales is such an albatross round England's neck, why not cut it free?

England needs Wales for its water, minerals, farm land, natural harbours, secure borders and many other reasons. Anyone who believes otherwise is very naive indeed.

But what do I know? I've only worked for Plaid for many years, including when they were in government and also spent a great deal of time with many members of the English political establishment.

Edit: How serendipitous...I quote from yesterday's WalesOnline article regarding the Welsh Government's intervention in the triggering of Article 50:

"The implication of Mr Eadie’s statement is that Westminster could make laws in all policy areas devolved to Wales – including, for example, details about how Welsh schools should be run.

Senior figures in Welsh politics said the submission betrayed a lack of respect for devolution.

One senior Welsh political source said: “This is a clear demonstration that there is a widely held belief in Whitehall that devolution should never have happened.

"It completely vindicates the Welsh Government’s intervention in this appeal.”

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/polit ... s-12289329
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Bishop84

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Re: Porth Teigr: Royal Naval College

PostFri Dec 09, 2016 1:36 pm

Meanwhile I understand they are going to build a new Base for Royal Navy Reserves, Royal Marine Reserves and the Royal Navy University Unit down in the bay.
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paul cardiffwalesmap

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Re: Porth Teigr: Royal Naval College

PostFri Dec 09, 2016 1:43 pm

Bishop84 wrote:Meanwhile I understand they are going to build a new Base for Royal Navy Reserves, Royal Marine Reserves and the Royal Navy University Unit down in the bay.


Nice one Bishop!!!

can we keep this thread to what this thread is about please and anyone is very welcome to start another one to continue the pretty much unrelated discussion
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RandomComment

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Re: Porth Teigr: Royal Naval College

PostFri Dec 09, 2016 2:09 pm

paul cardiffwalesmap wrote:
Bishop84 wrote:Meanwhile I understand they are going to build a new Base for Royal Navy Reserves, Royal Marine Reserves and the Royal Navy University Unit down in the bay.


Nice one Bishop!!!

can we keep this thread to what this thread is about please and anyone is very welcome to start another one to continue the pretty much unrelated discussion


Am not sure I agree this sort of thing is necessarily "off topic". If we're discussing views of developments, their impacts and drivers, in the widest sense - then politics like this can play a role in that discussion. Having said that though, I think we're now entering the Twilight zone of conspiracies.

Anyway, back to the development. Not sure its been said, but I think the building has a pretty distinctive naval look about it, which I like. From that angle it looks quite like a boat itself.
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paul cardiffwalesmap

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Re: Porth Teigr: Royal Naval College

PostFri Dec 09, 2016 5:43 pm

"Am not sure I agree this sort of thing is necessarily "off topic". If we're discussing views of developments, their impacts and drivers, in the widest sense - then politics like this can play a role in that discussion. Having said that though, I think we're now entering the Twilight zone of conspiracies"


not off topic! - then I stand corrected :roll:
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jonbvn

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Re: Porth Teigr: Royal Naval College

PostSun Dec 11, 2016 8:57 am

Cen wrote:Well, I'm not a Guardianista and generally don't hold the same views. I don't care what people believe as long as they understand what they're arguing about. It's no secret that education in this country is not the best, and defending this sort of ignorance instead of tackling it will only make the problem worse.


I am not defending ignorance. I am defending their right to have an opinion, whether you or anyone else agrees with it.

Labelling opinions that do not align with your own as ignorant is a well known Guardian approach. They are still in shock over there after Trump & Brexit. ;)
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