Porth Teigr: Royal Naval College

Blimey I was only away for a day, what the hell has happened to this thread?

So Randy, do,you think that the BBC is the propaganda arm of the British state or do you believe that the Beeb is impartial?

As I've written before, the first thing that people will see when they leave the station is that most British of institutions, the BBC.

Whereas up till recently the dominant view when arriving in Cardiff has been that most Welsh of institutions, the national stadium.

I wouldn't call St Williams House and lloyds Bank the most Welsh of institutions but each to their own.

Also, as far as I am aware, Wales is part of Britain ergo is British. In fact, as you well know, the etymology of Britain is derived from Briton, Brythonic being what the Romans labelled us Welsh back in the day. so being Welsh, or foreigner to the Saes, may be for you, but I am more than happy to be called Brythonic, the true inhabitants of these islands.

So Randy, do,you think that the BBC is the propaganda arm of the British state or do you believe that the Beeb is impartial?

As I've written before, the first thing that people will see when they leave the station is that most British of institutions, the BBC.

Whereas up till recently the dominant view when arriving in Cardiff has been that most Welsh of institutions, the national stadium.

I wouldn't call St Williams House and lloyds Bank the most Welsh of institutions but each to their own.

Also, as far as I am aware, Wales is part of Britain ergo is British. In fact, as you well know, the etymology of Britain is derived from Briton, Brythonic being what the Romans labelled us Welsh back in the day. so being Welsh, or foreigner to the Saes, may be for you, but I am more than happy to be called Brythonic, the true inhabitants of these islands.

Tumbleweed Smiley.

And I always suspected that you were A Briton on the old messageboard. Remember wishing us all a "Happy St George's Day"?

I'd rather be ruled by London than Brussels but would prefer Cardiff to be making the decisions.

People who don't realise that the conflation of the terms "English" and "British" is part of a campaign to diminish "Welsh" identity are blind to reality. I'm not proud to be British - or Welsh - but I accept that geographically, culturally and economically Wales will be tied to England in perpetuity. That fact doesn't preclude Wales from having more say in its own affairs and protecting/promoting Welsh identity.

So Randy, do,you think that the BBC is the propaganda arm of the British state or do you believe that the Beeb is impartial?

Its very hard to be completely impartial - although some of us try as hard as possible! - and of course, a cultural or worldview that is inherently influenced by being based in Britain, being the national broadcaster of Britain, will have some influence on the way the BBC goes about its business. But, it is far better than most media at keeping a sense of impartiality, including private sector outlets in this country, and public sector outlets elsewhere in the world. It is far from the propaganda arm of the British state - and to claim it is is offensive both to the staff there, and to the millions (billions) of people living in countries where state broadcasters really are propaganda arms of their states and governments.

And in a similar vein to what I said about BBC Wales, the people actually in the BBC aren't exactly imperial loyalists. Far more liberal-lefties than right-wingers, for instance. So actually they find it quite easily to step outside the UK and think about the other perspective. Two exceptions: the Royal Family, where like much of the media, coverage often borders on the fawning; and sport coverage, where I think the viewer expects some degree of partisanship - at least in excitement, if not in judgement.

I'm surprised you liked the view of the rugby stadium. A monument to a game invented in an English public school. The game of a people suffering from Stockholm syndrome!

why can't I be welsh British and European. why do you think identity has to be mutually exclusive

Whereas up till recently the dominant view when arriving in Cardiff has been that most Welsh of institutions, the national stadium.

Yes, it's such wonderful cathedral to an English Public-School game, filled with drunken, loutish event-goers who sign along to song about murdering a woman! What a uniquely Welsh institution to be proud of...

People who don't realise that the conflation of the terms "English" and "British" is part of a campaign to diminish "Welsh" identity are blind to reality. I'm not proud to be British - or Welsh - but I accept that geographically, culturally and economically Wales will be tied to England in perpetuity. That fact doesn't preclude Wales from having more say in its own affairs and protecting/promoting Welsh identity.

If anything, it's the English who have lost their identity!

I have no problem with Wales having more say in its affairs. The right to self-determination is in my view a fundamental right of any people. I've advocated that for years and I only wish that the UK moved to a federal system 100 years ago when it was first proposed. But sadly, there's limited appetite for it in Wales and I don't believe that there is sufficient talent in Wales to make it work.

The majority of Welsh people are stupid, narrow-minded, backward, xenophobic, apathetic and lazy. If that's not an accurate description of the reality, it's certainly the stereotype. Our best and brightess typically leave Wales and more often than not, don't come back. If it's not the lack of opportunities it's the mentality of the people. It's not the English holding us back, it's our own people.

I would really love for dramatic changes in Wales. I'd love to see more Welsh people taking ownership and responsibility to make Wales better, instead of blaming Westminster and England in general. But what I would hate to see is the sort of corrosive nationalism that's infected Scotland taking a hold in Wales.

People who don't realise that the conflation of the terms "English" and "British" is part of a campaign to diminish "Welsh" identity are blind to reality. I'm not proud to be British - or Welsh - but I accept that geographically, culturally and economically Wales will be tied to England in perpetuity. That fact doesn't preclude Wales from having more say in its own affairs and protecting/promoting Welsh identity.

If anything, it's the English who have lost their identity!

I have no problem with Wales having more say in its affairs. The right to self-determination is in my view a fundamental right of any people. I've advocated that for years and I only wish that the UK moved to a federal system 100 years ago when it was first proposed. But sadly, there's limited appetite for it in Wales and I don't believe that there is sufficient talent in Wales to make it work.

The majority of Welsh people are stupid, narrow-minded, backward, xenophobic, apathetic and lazy. If that's not an accurate description of the reality, it's certainly the stereotype. Our best and brightess typically leave Wales and more often than not, don't come back. If it's not the lack of opportunities it's the mentality of the people. It's not the English holding us back, it's our own people.

I would really love for dramatic changes in Wales. I'd love to see more Welsh people taking ownership and responsibility to make Wales better, instead of blaming Westminster and England in general. But what I would hate to see is the sort of corrosive nationalism that's infected Scotland taking a hold in Wales.

Not the brightest?

Having spent half my nearly 50 years living in England I can tell you that the English are just as nationalistic as the Welsh. And they are much more comfortable flitting between English and British nationalism than most people in Wales are. The terms "English" and "British" are used interchangeably by many of the natives in a way that just doesn't happen in Wales.

I think that is more to do with external views such as Americans using English and British interchangeably

Not the brightest?

Having spent half my nearly 50 years living in England I can tell you that the English are just as nationalistic as the Welsh. And they are much more comfortable flitting between English and British nationalism than most people in Wales are. The terms "English" and "British" are used interchangeably by many of the natives in a way that just doesn't happen in Wales.

I didn't say the English weren't nationalistic, they are! I've lived in England long enough to appreciate that. But I stand by my comment that the concept of Englishness has been used interchangeably with Britishness for so long, that the English are the one's who have lost their individuality. That's half of the problem with this rise in English nationalism since devolution. It's the English who feel they've lost their voice and their identity whilst us Welsh and Scottish exert ours.

I also stand by my comments that it's not the English who are holding us back anymore. I'll admit, I used to think the opposite until I studied and worked in England afterwards. Most English people know little and care less about Wales (and Scotland for that matter). Sure, they not that keen to do anything for us and they favour their own, but there's no grand conspiracy to hold us under an imperial boot. Westminster gave Scotland the vote on independence and unlike Brexit, that referendum was legally binding! Shows how concerned they really were about the break up of the UK.

Seriously, ask yourself why Wales got a second-class devolution settlement to Scotland? Who are the ones who have pushed for more political autonomy? Should we blame England for the Welsh apathy towards ruling ourselves? Look how quickly those oppressed under the Soviet Union or British Empire siezed their opportunity for "freedom". Or culturally, how many Welsh people care about speaking Welsh? Yeah, the Welsh not, blah, blah, blah! Welsh has been taught in schools for how many years now? How many Welsh evening classes are out there for adults to attend? Do the majority of Welsh people really care enough to do something about it? No. Who can we blame for that? Ourselves.

Yeah, there are plenty of 80/90-minute patriots in Wales when the rugby/football is on, but few out there who really want to make a difference and stand up and be counted. So lets cut the chippy nationalist crap and stop pretending that we're still oppressed by the English.

Incidently, those who resort to personal insults have typically lost their argument. There's no need for that.