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Cardiff aiming to be UK's top cycling city

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Simon__200

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Re: Cardiff aiming to be UK's top cycling city

PostWed Feb 22, 2017 9:53 am

I can't believe you posted that. Cardiff is by and large a really flat city. I find it rather ridiculous that what many cities would consider merely a modest, short incline, is touted as a reason against becoming a cycle-friendly city (especially when this particular hill is outside of Cardiff anyway). It's practically flat as a pancake throughout the entire city!
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Jantra

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Re: Cardiff aiming to be UK's top cycling city

PostWed Feb 22, 2017 10:06 am

Whilst Cardiff isn't a particularly hilly city, it's not flat either. Thats not to say cycle routes shouldn't be built though.

Question - where does the funding for the cycle routes come from?
I'd rather be no one than someone with no one.
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Cen

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Re: Cardiff aiming to be UK's top cycling city

PostWed Feb 22, 2017 10:09 am

East Cardiff is not very flat at all. St Mellons, Lisvane, Pontprennau, Rumney, Llanrumney - all suburbs that comprise a rather large amount of hills. I can barely get up Rumney Hill in my little car, let alone cycle! I can appreciate that the centre and the west are all relatively flat, but if people can't comfortably cycle around their own home then they will never get to these areas anyway.
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Mr Blue Sky

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Re: Cardiff aiming to be UK's top cycling city

PostWed Feb 22, 2017 10:58 am

Simon__200 wrote:I can't believe you posted that. Cardiff is by and large a really flat city. I find it rather ridiculous that what many cities would consider merely a modest, short incline, is touted as a reason against becoming a cycle-friendly city (especially when this particular hill is outside of Cardiff anyway). It's practically flat as a pancake throughout the entire city!


No it isn't "flat as a pancake throughout the entire city." Look at this topographic map:

http://en-gb.topographic-map.com/places/Cardiff-406127/

Ely, Caerau, Fairwater, Cyncoed, Penylan, Pentrebane, Radyr, Thornhill, Lisvane, St Mellons, Rumney, Pentwyn, Llanedeyrn, Llanrumney and Pontprennau are all hilly. Look at the topography maps in my initial post. Inner Cardiff is quite flat, yes, but outer Cardiff is hilly compared to the other cities mentioned. Cycling around and between Whitchurch, Llandaf, Gabalfa, Mynachdy, Maindy, Llandaf North, Heath, Birchgrove and Rhiwbina can be challenging as you traverse the Taff valley and climb the ridge that extends from Llandaf North to Heath.

In fact, there are a large number of UK towns and cities that are flatter than Cardiff: Aberdeen, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Hull, York, Peterborough, Norwich, Southend, Portsmouth, Liverpool, Birkenhead conurbation, Chester, Cheltenham/Gloucester, Swindon, Hereford. Not forgetting London which is largely gently sloping sides of the Thames valley and its tributaries.

I've cycled all my life and still cycle most days but the fact is that most of outer Cardiff is hilly and, in my opinion, not suitable for cycling as the gradients are too steep. The fact that the flat cities of Cambridge, Amsterdam and Copenhagen are cycling Shangri-Las proves my point. People should be cycling and walking in flat inner Cardiff - I never use my car for journeys in the inner city - but the council shouldn't pretend that increasing cycling rates in the outer suburbs is feasible. By all means create flat routes along the river valleys and along the ridges but to expect someone to be able to cycle from the top of Pentrebane to St Mellons isn't the same as expecting someone to cycle from Tongwynlais to Splott.
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NorthCityBoy

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Re: Cardiff aiming to be UK's top cycling city

PostWed Feb 22, 2017 3:24 pm

Most cyclists are also car drivers, but not all car drivers are cyclists. It is annoying to see grown men cycling on the pavement and ignoring traffic lights etc and I despair when I see it, BUT, I would invite anyone that hasn't, to spend half a day cycling on our roads. The lack of awareness, selfishness, and downright aggression displayed by many car drivers has to be seen to be believed.

In my mind, the problem is that car drivers really do think that they have priority over every one else on the road, including pedestrians and cyclists.

If every driver were made to spend just a few hours on a bike as part of their driving test, it might open their eyes a bit and perhaps make them a bit more considerate towards others.

Also I would really like to see the police clamp down hard on cyclists not using lights at night, not wearing helmets, cycling on pavements, dangerously weaving in and out of moving traffic etc.
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Simon_SW17

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Re: Cardiff aiming to be UK's top cycling city

PostWed Feb 22, 2017 5:53 pm

Also I would really like to see the police clamp down hard on cyclists not using lights at night, not wearing helmets, cycling on pavements, dangerously weaving in and out of moving traffic etc.


There's no law against not wearing a helmet while cycling in the UK. I never wear one and in The Netherlands literally no one wears one, although admittedly they have great cycling infrastructure. I do however always use lights at night and cycle considerately!
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Peiriannydd

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Re: Cardiff aiming to be UK's top cycling city

PostWed Feb 22, 2017 9:41 pm

Simon_SW17 wrote:
Also I would really like to see the police clamp down hard on cyclists not using lights at night, not wearing helmets, cycling on pavements, dangerously weaving in and out of moving traffic etc.


There's no law against not wearing a helmet while cycling in the UK. I never wear one and in The Netherlands literally no one wears one, although admittedly they have great cycling infrastructure. I do however always use lights at night and cycle considerately!


I for one do not believe in such Nanny-State interventions and would rather put my faith in natural selection. If someone is stupid enough to cycle around a busy city at night without a helmet and without a light then I think we could all do without that person's contribution to the gene pool.

Someone suggested that drivers should do some cycling as part of their test to appreciate the perils that cyclists face. Well, you could also argue that cyclists and pedestrians should drive a bit more to see what it's like behind a wheel. Ever tried seeing some with dark clothing walking around or cycling at night? Visibilty is not that brilliant, despite head lights.
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NorthCityBoy

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Re: Cardiff aiming to be UK's top cycling city

PostWed Feb 22, 2017 10:19 pm

Peiriannydd wrote:
Simon_SW17 wrote:
Also I would really like to see the police clamp down hard on cyclists not using lights at night, not wearing helmets, cycling on pavements, dangerously weaving in and out of moving traffic etc.


There's no law against not wearing a helmet while cycling in the UK. I never wear one and in The Netherlands literally no one wears one, although admittedly they have great cycling infrastructure. I do however always use lights at night and cycle considerately!


I for one do not believe in such Nanny-State interventions and would rather put my faith in natural selection. If someone is stupid enough to cycle around a busy city at night without a helmet and without a light then I think we could all do without that person's contribution to the gene pool.

Someone suggested that drivers should do some cycling as part of their test to appreciate the perils that cyclists face. Well, you could also argue that cyclists and pedestrians should drive a bit more to see what it's like behind a wheel. Ever tried seeing some with dark clothing walking around or cycling at night? Visibilty is not that brilliant, despite head lights.


Would you describe the compulsory wearing of helmets for motor cyclists as "nanny state intervention"? How about wearing seat belts in cars? I made a mistake saying the police should crack down on it as I'm well aware it's not compulsory . However I do believe the police should be more pro active in stopping those committing other misdemeanours.

Many, many cyclists and pedestrians are also drivers of course, so will be aware of the dangers that poor cyclists cause. We are a nation of cyclists and it's as popular now as it's ever been. You would have thought that more car drivers would be a bit more considerate towards people that are much more vulnerable than themselves.
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Peiriannydd

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Re: Cardiff aiming to be UK's top cycling city

PostWed Feb 22, 2017 11:51 pm

NorthCityBoy wrote:Would you describe the compulsory wearing of helmets for motor cyclists as "nanny state intervention"? How about wearing seat belts in cars? I made a mistake saying the police should crack down on it as I'm well aware it's not compulsory . However I do believe the police should be more pro active in stopping those committing other misdemeanours.

Many, many cyclists and pedestrians are also drivers of course, so will be aware of the dangers that poor cyclists cause. We are a nation of cyclists and it's as popular now as it's ever been. You would have thought that more car drivers would be a bit more considerate towards people that are much more vulnerable than themselves.


Why is it that there are some cars (notably vintage cars) which can be legally driven without the use of safety belt? Why is it that Sikhs are exempt from wearing safety helmets on construction sites (refer to The Employment Act 1989)? Are these people at less risk from harm? I think if you're going to introduce laws to protect people from themselves, then there needs to be some consistency and equality under the law.

Personally, I believe in freedom of choice. There should, however, be some exceptions. Notable, children and people at their workplace should be treated differently. For exampmle, everyone on a construction site should be wearing a helmet, no exeptions. That way, if there is an accident, you can't have a negligent employer, who put someone in a dangerous environment without providing suitable protective equipment, claiming that the employee was at fault. But hey, if you want to jump on your motocycle and splatter your brains all over the road, go for it!
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Simon__200

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Re: Cardiff aiming to be UK's top cycling city

PostThu Feb 23, 2017 10:20 am

Cen wrote:East Cardiff is not very flat at all. St Mellons, Lisvane, Pontprennau, Rumney, Llanrumney - all suburbs that comprise a rather large amount of hills. I can barely get up Rumney Hill in my little car, let alone cycle! I can appreciate that the centre and the west are all relatively flat, but if people can't comfortably cycle around their own home then they will never get to these areas anyway.

This is ridiculous. St. Melons, Lisvane, etc. are predominantly flat with a few gentle inclines. Even Rumney Hill is a veritable gentle incline when compared with the hilly landscape of most places in Wales.

I'm a driver and a cyclist, and I can immediately tell a Cardiff native driver by the way many of them often do not even instinctively leave their cars in gear when parking. I cannot for the life of me understand where many of you can get the idea that Cardiff is not predominantly flat, just because it has a few inclines or because Cambridge and Amsterdam are even flatter.
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