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Council Election (May 2017)

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Simon__200

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Re: Council Election (May 2017)

PostThu Apr 20, 2017 9:14 am

Jantra wrote:
Simon__200 wrote:
Jantra wrote:Racists are entitled to hold their views, no matter how repugnant they are. We cannot pick and choose when we allow liberalism, either we have it or we dont.

You come across as a typical left winger - all views are welcome as long as they agree with your own. Try north korea, you may like it there

Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion, it's just unfortunate when that opinion is wrong, and it's OK to call people out on it. Not all opinions are valid, or worthy of respect. This sort of defines the Brexit issue when people have resorted to ridiculous statements like "I've had enough of experts". This sort of riculous anti-intellectualism is taken the piss of out with Trump supporters, people who practise homeopathy and climate change deniers, but Brexiters cannot see it when it falls in them.

you appear to confuse facts with opinion.

fact: the EU is made up of 28 member states
opinion: the EU is bad for the UK


lets start with baby steps....given it is subjective, how can an opinion be wrong?


Opinions aren't necessarily subjective. "That homeopathic arnica cream healed my arm" isn't subjective and "Our economy will be stronger outside of the EU", will eventually be shown to be objectively right or wrong (and you can be sure it'll be the latter). Your statement is only subjective because the meaning of "bad" is.
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Frank

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Re: Council Election (May 2017)

PostWed Apr 26, 2017 10:49 am

Reading this just makes me feel sad. Don't know how it applies to us.

https://www.ft.com/content/84892c56-1a17-11e7-bcac-6d03d067f81f

If you can't get beyond the paywall go via google.
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Jantra

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Re: Council Election (May 2017)

PostWed Apr 26, 2017 11:19 am

Simon__200 wrote:Opinions aren't necessarily subjective. "That homeopathic arnica cream healed my arm" isn't subjective and "Our economy will be stronger outside of the EU", will eventually be shown to be objectively right or wrong (and you can be sure it'll be the latter). Your statement is only subjective because the meaning of "bad" is.


what you are saying is is that an opinion remains an opinion until such time as events have happened and it can then be confirmed as fact or otherwise.

hence an opinion is subjective, whereas facts are not.
I'd rather be no one than someone with no one.
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Simon__200

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Re: Council Election (May 2017)

PostMon May 01, 2017 10:19 am

Jantra wrote:
Simon__200 wrote:Opinions aren't necessarily subjective. "That homeopathic arnica cream healed my arm" isn't subjective and "Our economy will be stronger outside of the EU", will eventually be shown to be objectively right or wrong (and you can be sure it'll be the latter). Your statement is only subjective because the meaning of "bad" is.


what you are saying is is that an opinion remains an opinion until such time as events have happened and it can then be confirmed as fact or otherwise.

hence an opinion is subjective, whereas facts are not.

Not true at all. Two mutually exclusive conditions X and Y. To say that X is true or Y is true, is an opinion, but it's 100% objective and can be proved one way or the other. Just because you might not happen to know the facts, one is still objectively wrong, while the other objectively right.
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Jantra

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Re: Council Election (May 2017)

PostMon May 01, 2017 1:49 pm

Simon__200 wrote:
Jantra wrote:
Simon__200 wrote:Opinions aren't necessarily subjective. "That homeopathic arnica cream healed my arm" isn't subjective and "Our economy will be stronger outside of the EU", will eventually be shown to be objectively right or wrong (and you can be sure it'll be the latter). Your statement is only subjective because the meaning of "bad" is.


what you are saying is is that an opinion remains an opinion until such time as events have happened and it can then be confirmed as fact or otherwise.

hence an opinion is subjective, whereas facts are not.

Not true at all. Two mutually exclusive conditions X and Y. To say that X is true or Y is true, is an opinion, but it's 100% objective and can be proved one way or the other. Just because you might not happen to know the facts, one is still objectively wrong, while the other objectively right.

Opinions cannot be proved or disproved as they are subjective. That's the whole point of opinions.

You seem to think that opinions that differ from your own are less valid. That's quite a conceited viewpoint.
I'd rather be no one than someone with no one.
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Simon__200

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Re: Council Election (May 2017)

PostTue May 02, 2017 1:41 am

Jantra wrote:
Opinions cannot be proved or disproved as they are subjective. That's the whole point of opinions.

You seem to think that opinions that differ from your own are less valid. That's quite a conceited viewpoint.

No I don't. And you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what an opinion is. Opinions that are subjective are equally valid. If you told me that The X Factors was fantastic TV, I'd disagree, but wouldn't be conceited in any way, or try to make out you were objectively wrong.

However, opinions don't have to subjective. They can often be proved one way or another either by facts or as facts emerge. Some people literally believe that the earth is flat. That's their opinion. It's an opinion that can objectively be proved incorrect though.

There's currently a problem at the moment where broadcast media seem to forget this. We might have the case where a doctor or scientist has made something his life's study, has the data and facts, but then we get some quack who, in the interest of balance, is given equal air time to push his theory that it's healthy to, for example, I don't know, gargle 100 bees each morning. The scientist might be able to prove that it's not in fact healthy to do this, but hey, the quack is entitled to his "opinion". So we balance up the points of view of both people as if they're equal. One says gargle a hundred bees, the other says don't. What do we do, settle on a consensus of 50 bees, as a balance? Of course not.
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Jantra

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Re: Council Election (May 2017)

PostTue May 02, 2017 9:44 am

you have argued against yourself there. Earlier you claimed people who held certain political opinions (subjective) are deluded (or words to that effect). now you seem to accept that opinions are subjective.

i am also well aware of what an opinion is (as I have been arguing all along that opinions, by their definition, are subjective), it is you who appears to struggle that opinions aren't always borne from fact, as evidenced by your aforementioned suggestion apropos of those that hold certain political opinions.

the standard definition of an opinion is that it is a view held not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. Until such time as the facts can be ascertained, all opinions are valid. you seem to disagree with this, even in the absence of facts.

lets put it another way, my opinion is X, your opinion is Y. Until such time as the event transpires, both opinions are valid. when the event happens then we can no longer have an opinion on the outcome because the outcome is known with certainty. Using your own parlance, flat earthers don't have opinions, they simply ignore facts.
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Zach

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Re: Council Election (May 2017)

PostTue May 02, 2017 10:06 am

Yes, you are now almost now trying to argue the reverse.

Simon, this all started because you spouted off your 'informed opinion' which you asserted was a fact and then criticised others for daring to contradict you, saying you were more enlightened. You claim others to be politically inept but if you do, then at least try and do some research before posting something that a GCSE student would regard as, at best naive and at worst ignorant on the subject.

This is the sort of thing I mean(!) Seriously! Plaid position themselves as a firm left-wing party. Why would they ever want to build build bridges with The Conservatives?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Wales


The real scandal is the amount of uncontested seats, up to 25% in Powys.
So much for a fully functioning democracy in Wales.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-39751858
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moyceyyy

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Re: Council Election (May 2017)

PostTue May 02, 2017 3:46 pm

please, stop.
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LocalLurker

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Re: Council Election (May 2017)

PostFri May 05, 2017 9:56 am

Labour retain control of Cardiff.

Thank goodness McEvoy's dream of a LDP bonfire will not come to fruition. Let the building of homes to the west of Cardiff commence at great speed
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