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Tall Buildings

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Mr Blue Sky

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Re: Tall Buildings

PostThu Jun 15, 2017 2:22 pm

Mathew5 wrote:Does it seriously justify intense and constant news coverage? It's tasteless.


Of course it does! There are still many people missing. This is probably going to be the most deadly disaster involving UK citizens since Zeebrugge, Lockerbie or Piper Alpha. I'd imagine every single person who lives in a flat, especially those recently reclad and/or in a high-rise block, is going to be very worried about their safety.

This blog, https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.c ... ower-fire/, reports that there had been serious electrical surges in Grenfell tower for a few years. This was a disaster waiting to happen in a local authority with, probably, more wealthy people than any other on Earth.
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Lyndon

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Re: Tall Buildings

PostThu Jun 15, 2017 3:11 pm

Mathew5 wrote:Does it seriously justify intense and constant news coverage? It's tasteless.


Are you mad? This is tragically looking like it's going to be the biggest disaster in this country since Hillsborough, it's going to have massive social, economic and political ramifications for years to come. It could conceivably bring down the government. :roll:
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Peiriannydd

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Re: Tall Buildings

PostThu Jun 15, 2017 6:17 pm

To put things into perspective, the attached photo is the aftermath of the 1968 Ronan Point disaster in London, which left only 4 people dead and injured 17. It was the result of a gas explosion within one of the flats’ kitchens. The explosion damaged structural elements in a way that resulted in a disproportionate and progressive collapse of the remaining structure. As a consequence, every building regulation and structural standard / code of practice has been adapted to deal with this issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Point

17 people dying as the result of a fire in a recently refurbished building, located in the capital city of the United Kingdom, is completely and utterly unacceptable. No excuses.

Those who think this is a London media bias should think about the world-wide media coverage Aberfan had. Catastrophies such as this attract large amounts of media attention.

The media should quite rightly report this story and ensure that there is no cover up. However, what I would also say, is that people should not jump to conclusions, even those in the profession as we do not have all of the facts.

The cladding (given its recent alterations and the way the fire spread) will naturally form a key part of the investigation. But what is typical in such engineering failures is a catalogue of errors.

I would also say that those who are seeking the immediate opportunity to politicise this disaster are out of place. Questions have been asked about the effect of austerity measures on the council’s ability to address any concerns/issues regard the safety of these buildings. I think those questions are premature and opportunistic given the recent general election. We should way to see the findings of the forensic engineers and the Coroner’s Court.
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Cen

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Re: Tall Buildings

PostThu Jun 15, 2017 6:44 pm

That catalogue of errors is most likely down to taking shortcuts and generally shoddy work. British developers have been getting away with murder for decades now. Hopefully this will be a big wake-up call for any developers out there with rigorous "value engineering" principles. Even from a selfish developer's perspective, I'm sure they wouldn't want to end up imprisoned. Councils need to be pushing for quality and safety, not value. You can't put a price on life.
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Peiriannydd

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Re: Tall Buildings

PostThu Jun 15, 2017 7:36 pm

The reality is that they dump all of that responsibility onto the design team. It's always some poor bastard lower down the food chain that ends up taking one for the team whilst the arsehole executives get away with it.
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Zach

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Re: Tall Buildings

PostThu Jun 15, 2017 7:39 pm

The most telling account of the catagolue of errors that led up to this event was from a blind women who heard the newley installed gas pipes located in the stair well and un-boxed going pop every few minutes as the fire spread upwards.
Transco the gas installer put them in in November but hadn't got around to boxing them in until they were sure there weren't anymore takers for new gas heating systems. One of the reasons it didn't have gas was the Ronan Point incident, which maybe has been forgotten over time.
Don't let the figure of 17 dead lighten the event, I suspect authorities know that the final figure will be well over a hundred as the flats housed people with large families.

On subject of shoddy work, look at any new development and all the letter boxes, Gas/Electric boxes, out side light etc are all either rusted or broken. Cheap materials.
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Jeremy

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Re: Tall Buildings

PostThu Jun 15, 2017 10:07 pm

In Wales all new builds, conversions and refurbishments, I believe, have to have sprinklers and three recent tower refurbishments in Flint include sprinkler systems. If I remember the legislation took a lot of flack but now seems justified. If Wales can do this so can England.

https://www.labc.co.uk/guidance/spotlig ... ical-guide

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news ... -2016.aspx

http://siryfflint.gov.uk/en/Resident/Co ... E10051195A

It is not retrospective but could be made so.
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Jeremy

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Re: Tall Buildings

PostThu Jun 22, 2017 9:14 pm

Thought I would add an update as this article from Walesonline does suggest that there are no public housing blocks in Wales using a similar cladding to Grenfell, most seem to be rockwool or similar behind a rendered outer skin. A number seem to have been retrofitted with sprinkers - three in Flint, two in Cwmbran and Louden Sq(?) in Cardiff.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... e-13217475
Does this mean that we have politicians, of all persuasions, and housing professionals who take their responsibilities a bit more seriously?
Contrasted with politicians who have UK national aspirations all I would say is that history will judge them harshly
http://www.cfoa.org.uk/16092
http://www.annjones.org.uk/am-calls-for ... prinklers/
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Peiriannydd

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Re: Tall Buildings

PostThu Jun 22, 2017 11:43 pm

There is going to be huge fallout over this. It's interesting that this article suggests that around 600 existing towers in England could be affecting:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40366646
Councils all over the place are conducting investigations:
http://www.constructionenquirer.com/201 ... ll-towers/

Camden council plan on stripping the cladding on 5 towers:
http://www.constructionenquirer.com/201 ... ve-towers/

Croydon are looking to retrofit 25 towers with sprinklers:
http://www.constructionenquirer.com/201 ... prinklers/

Hopefully, we'll see the end of this rainscreen cladding shit on tall buildings, which look cheap and nasty anyway!
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Cen

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Re: Tall Buildings

PostFri Jun 23, 2017 8:14 am

It's just bizarre to me how it seems to be just England in which this has occurred. Are our planning laws that different? It doesn't surprise me that England's laws would largely benefit the landlord though...
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