It is currently Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:17 pm


Wales Development Bank HQ

if it's about Cardiff.. Sport, Entertainment, Transportation, Business, Development Projects, Leisure, Eating, Drinking, Nightlife, Shopping, Train Spotting! etc.. then we want it here!
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Mr Blue Sky

  • Posts: 279
  • Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:55 pm

Re: Wales Development Bank HQ

PostTue May 16, 2017 3:32 pm

Like I said, Welsh nationalists want to improve north/south transport links to unify Wales culturally and economically. English and British nationalists don't.

I spend quite a bit of time in north east Wales and it has anglicised dramatically since the 1980s - since they dualled the A55 up to Conwy. I think that a dual carriageway from Monmouth to Wrexham would be a great idea, bypassing Hereford and the other bypass-less towns along the border. Plenty do have bypasses that could be incorporated.

People from Cheshire, north Staffs, Lancashire, Yorkshire and all points north could then travel to mid, west and south Wales without having to pass through the West Midlands conurbation. Hereford is allegedly the only city in England without a bypass, although I'm sure that a western route has been under consideration for decades. Transiting Hereford takes around 30 mins and makes the Cardiff to Wrexham journey via this route much longer in terms of time than the M50/M5/M6 choice.

I think that the benefits to the UK and to Wales of building a dualled Monmouth/Wrexham road would be tremendous.

It seems that Tory MP - likely to be reelected I think - Owen Paterson agrees with me, regarding the Shrewsbury to Wrexham stretch anyway. http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-w ... n-12688329

If this were to be built, and the Hereford bypass built, then eventually we could end up with a dual carriageway linking north and south Wales - in England! But Welsh beggars can't be choosers and I'd be happy-ish with this.
Offline

RandomComment

  • Posts: 703
  • Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:50 pm

Re: Wales Development Bank HQ

PostTue May 16, 2017 6:08 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:I think that the benefits to the UK and to Wales of building a dualled Monmouth/Wrexham road would be tremendous.


I'll admit I haven't tried to do a proper cost benefit calculation of this. But that is what goes on under a lot of transport schemes. Of course, sometimes they end up funding duds for political reasons - High Speed 2, anyone? Still, there is an approach that while imperfect, at least allows comparisons between schemes to be made on a consistent basis.

Now maybe it hasn't been applied to such a scheme and if it did, it would shout "tremendous". But I doubt it. Road schemes that tend to get the best CB ratios actually tend to be smaller ones - bypasses, connections, improved junctions. The things lots and lots of people benefit from on a daily basis during their commutes. Not things that people may use occasionally, unless there is a sufficient mass of such people. I just doubt that given the economic geography of England and Wales, there will be that many people travelling North-South on that route.
Offline

moyceyyy

  • Posts: 261
  • Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:03 pm
  • Location: Llanelli

Re: Wales Development Bank HQ

PostTue May 16, 2017 11:19 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:Like I said, Welsh nationalists want to improve north/south transport links to unify Wales culturally and economically. English and British nationalists don't.

I spend quite a bit of time in north east Wales and it has anglicised dramatically since the 1980s - since they dualled the A55 up to Conwy. I think that a dual carriageway from Monmouth to Wrexham would be a great idea, bypassing Hereford and the other bypass-less towns along the border. Plenty do have bypasses that could be incorporated.

People from Cheshire, north Staffs, Lancashire, Yorkshire and all points north could then travel to mid, west and south Wales without having to pass through the West Midlands conurbation. Hereford is allegedly the only city in England without a bypass, although I'm sure that a western route has been under consideration for decades. Transiting Hereford takes around 30 mins and makes the Cardiff to Wrexham journey via this route much longer in terms of time than the M50/M5/M6 choice.

I think that the benefits to the UK and to Wales of building a dualled Monmouth/Wrexham road would be tremendous.

It seems that Tory MP - likely to be reelected I think - Owen Paterson agrees with me, regarding the Shrewsbury to Wrexham stretch anyway. http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-w ... n-12688329

If this were to be built, and the Hereford bypass built, then eventually we could end up with a dual carriageway linking north and south Wales - in England! But Welsh beggars can't be choosers and I'd be happy-ish with this.


A dualled road from Monmouth to Wrexham? I dont think thats great spending. I think a better option would be to simply have a link road from the M6 to Wrexham, as people driving up from the south can use the M5 at Bristol and just drive north from there.

However if we did have that much money to waste, and we needed to get as many cars on the road as possible, I think it would be a better idea to start at Merthyr, and have a dual carriageway go via Brecon, Builth, Llandod, Newtown, Welshpool, through Wrexham, and all the way up to Deeside, linking with the A55 next to the A494 junction. Alongside this I'd have a link road (possibly an improved A44 linking Aberystwyth with the north-south route.

However the money required to build a high quality dual carriageway with enough cut-throughs, tunnels, bridges, viaducts and GSJ's to get through the Brecon Beacons and Cambrian Mountains would make it one of the single most expensive road projects the UK has ever seen. Not to forget the amount of controversy it would cause through NIMBYism and environmentalist groups across Europe that our shitty government clearly would not be able to handle.

We could only dream.
Offline
User avatar

Jantra

  • Posts: 1014
  • Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:53 pm
  • Location: Penarth

Re: Wales Development Bank HQ

PostWed May 17, 2017 8:46 am

Alternatively we can just accept the nats only make up 10% or so of the vote and the other 90% want to focus on east/west links rather than artificial north/south links
I'd rather be no one than someone with no one.
Offline

Mr Blue Sky

  • Posts: 279
  • Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:55 pm

Re: Wales Development Bank HQ

PostWed May 17, 2017 9:40 am

Jantra wrote:Alternatively we can just accept the Welsh nats only make up 10% or so of the vote and the other British/English nats (90%) want to focus on east/west links rather than artificial north/south links


You are very fond of "FYP" so I've done it for you.
Offline

Mr Blue Sky

  • Posts: 279
  • Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:55 pm

Re: Wales Development Bank HQ

PostWed May 17, 2017 10:12 am

I'm going to give you a different analysis. Here are maps of the population distribution of the UK and of the major roads network.

ImageImage

As you can see there are a number of major north/south routes in England:

-The A1/A1(M)/M11 - which doubles up going south beyond Peterborough
-The M1
-The M6/M40
-The M6/M5
-The M42/A34 (I'm not including the A34 linking Manchester to Birmingham as it's single carriageway)

In England and Wales (based on 2011 census populations) 34 million people live east of the line of the Pennines and 21 million people live west of that line. Travelling north to south, 3 routes originate in the East and 2 in the West, but 4 routes end in the East and only one in the West.

You can see that the M54 and M50 both end without joining a major north/south road axis (although the M50 does join with the A40). I contend that the West Midlands conurbation needs a western bypass and that should be a dual carriageway linking Hereford with Shrewsbury. There are already bypasses at Shrewsbury, Ludlow and Leominster.

An interesting comparison is the connection between Stoke-on-Trent and Sheffield. Despite being only 38 miles apart - separated by the Peak District- journeys between the two cities can take around two hours, by road or rail. I know both cities well and there is almost total ignorance amongst the respective populations of the other city. A dual-carriageway linking the two places would provide an enormous boost both to their economies and to the wider economies of the North and Midlands of England as there are currently no trans-Pennine routes running south-west/north east to connect the 8 million people of the Yorkshire and NorthEast regions with the 14 million people of the West Midlands and South West Regions of England along with the people of South Wales.

South East England, the East and London are overheating and constructing the two routes I've outlined would go a long way towards rebalancing the UK. It is clear that a preponderance of major roads are orientated towards London and this is creating a self-fulfilling prophecy in which London continues to grow and demand more resources and investment.
Offline
User avatar

Jantra

  • Posts: 1014
  • Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:53 pm
  • Location: Penarth

Re: Wales Development Bank HQ

PostWed May 17, 2017 10:39 am

using your own graphic, we can see no one lives in north wales, yet you want us to build an expensive road there. madness
I'd rather be no one than someone with no one.
Offline

Mr Blue Sky

  • Posts: 279
  • Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:55 pm

Re: Wales Development Bank HQ

PostWed May 17, 2017 10:59 am

Jantra wrote:using your own graphic, we can see no one lives in north wales, yet you want us to build an expensive road there. madness


No, I've suggested building a road to bypass, on the west, the West Midlands conurbation. This would link north west England and Scotland to south west England and south and west Wales. As a bonus it would link south Wales to north Wales.

There are two major roads east of the Pennines and only one to the west. There are slightly more people living to the west of the Pennines (before they peter out in the middle valley of the Trent) than live to the east of the Pennines. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_England 12.5 million compared to 12.3 million
Surely it is fair that the North West and West Midlands have as many north/south routes as those living in the North East, Yorkshire and East Midlands?
Offline

RandomComment

  • Posts: 703
  • Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:50 pm

Re: Wales Development Bank HQ

PostWed May 17, 2017 2:07 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:
Jantra wrote:using your own graphic, we can see no one lives in north wales, yet you want us to build an expensive road there. madness


No, I've suggested building a road to bypass, on the west, the West Midlands conurbation. This would link north west England and Scotland to south west England and south and west Wales. As a bonus it would link south Wales to north Wales.

There are two major roads east of the Pennines and only one to the west. There are slightly more people living to the west of the Pennines (before they peter out in the middle valley of the Trent) than live to the east of the Pennines. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_England 12.5 million compared to 12.3 million
Surely it is fair that the North West and West Midlands have as many north/south routes as those living in the North East, Yorkshire and East Midlands?


Your map quite clearly shows an axis of population running from North West to South East in the UK. Road routes (A1M, M1, M40/M42/M6) generally follow that.. with the M6/M5 being the South West / North West route.

I don't think traffic on the M6/M5 route is a particular issue. There was more of an issue of traffic on the M40/42/6 route, hence the (slightly white-elephanty) M6-toll.
Offline
User avatar

Jantra

  • Posts: 1014
  • Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:53 pm
  • Location: Penarth

Re: Wales Development Bank HQ

PostWed May 17, 2017 3:54 pm

The M6 around J16 is a nightmare, but when you get off it at the M5 junction traffic does ease up.

The M6 / M5 corridor works perfectly well and doesn't really need an additional motorway running parallel.

NB I am a regular user of this route between Cardiff and Manchester
I'd rather be no one than someone with no one.
PreviousNext

Return to Cardiff Wales Map forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 2 guests

cron