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NIMBYs in the Valleys?

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RandomComment

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NIMBYs in the Valleys?

PostTue Jun 20, 2017 6:55 pm

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... 5-13213570

It has sometimes been suggested that rather than build houses in Cardiff in Cardiff we could build more in the valleys and such development would not only help ease pressure on Cardiff and create new customers for Valleys businesses.. but it would be welcomed by communities who'd see it as a shot in the arm!

Well the above article made me laugh as it quotes a petition against 175 homes proposed for Oakdale by existing residents who don't want Oakdale to become a "metropolis". OK this is the usual hyperbole used by the instigators of such petitions.. but come on!
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LocalLurker

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Re: NIMBYs in the Valleys?

PostTue Jun 20, 2017 7:25 pm

Is it any reason why the valleys continue to fall behind Cardiff in prosperity :x See also the house on the lower slopes of Caerphilly Mountain which stopped last year. Beggars belief. I've stopped caring about developments north of the M4 these days. Thank God our council is forward thinking and building homes for the future 8-)
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moyceyyy

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Re: NIMBYs in the Valleys?

PostTue Jun 20, 2017 8:15 pm

A METROPOLIS LOOOOOOOL

But to start, I pretty much agree with the petition. The problem is that people simply do not want to live in the valleys. Cardiff is an exponentially fast growing city (in UK terms), and is in the top 10/5 in the UK, and there is one particular reason why.

People are moving out of the valleys to find better employment and quality of life/environment. Where are they going?

... Cardiff.

For such a major city, the house prices are still relatively cheap (for now) and stack much better to its bigger neighbour Bristol. This means the only nearby city to move to would be Newport or Cardiff. I know which one I'd prefer.

The statistic about 600 homes being for sale within 3 miles just says it all really. The new homes would sell, but it would just free up another 175 different homes in the area. Moving nowhere.
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Kyle

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Re: NIMBYs in the Valleys?

PostTue Jun 20, 2017 8:44 pm

Do any of you ever drive to any towns and villages north of the M4? There ARE houses being built in some of the towns and villages!

People don't want to live in the valleys? Then who is moving into all the new houses going up?
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AlwaysBeBlue

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Re: NIMBYs in the Valleys?

PostTue Jun 20, 2017 9:05 pm

The people moving up the valleys are people who cannot afford a home in Cardiff. I know a lot of people who would love to live in Cardiff but cannot afford the house prices.

I think Cardiff should grow and extend taking in Barry and Penarth.. a City should have at least 500k in it to be classed a big city in my opinion
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Kyle

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Re: NIMBYs in the Valleys?

PostTue Jun 20, 2017 9:40 pm

AlwaysBeBlue wrote:The people moving up the valleys are people who cannot afford a home in Cardiff. I know a lot of people who would love to live in Cardiff but cannot afford the house prices.

I think Cardiff should grow and extend taking in Barry and Penarth.. a City should have at least 500k in it to be classed a big city in my opinion


Yes in many cases, so do I, but in lots of other cases it's a choice for a whole variety of reasons. Some people just want to be nearer countryside, some don't like cities, some are just tight arses and want a bigger house for their money, and just don't want a large mortgage. Others, and there's many, don't work in Cardiff and aren't from there so have no need or desire to live there but could do if they wanted to. It's enough for many to live just outside a city and are happy to visit when they need things that are there. 15 minutes by train and I'm in the city centre vs how long by bus or car for those in St. Mellons or Pontprennau. It's a tiny city anyway and easy to get to from many places in the valleys. I'd love to live there again but my other half isn't so keen.

I agree about it growing, it's why I like the city region concept. Cardiff is way too small a city to be taken seriously internationally on it's own. Many big cities in the world are actually a metropolis of many towns and cities anyway. There's no reason why Cardiff can't be the same.
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moyceyyy

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Re: NIMBYs in the Valleys?

PostWed Jun 21, 2017 3:33 am

Kyle wrote:Do any of you ever drive to any towns and villages north of the M4? There ARE houses being built in some of the towns and villages!

People don't want to live in the valleys? Then who is moving into all the new houses going up?


Of course some people are moving in, there will always be migration across the country. However, trying to compare Cardiff and the Valleys in terms of a people moving into the areas at the same scale is crazy. I'd probably say the valleys has about 5% of the housing demand that Cardiff has.

The point is, houses can be built to accommodate people in the valleys, but trying to build 20,000+ homes (as the LDP states) with equal distribution over the areas of Cardiff and the Valleys will result in colossal failure. It's just not that simple. The valleys have some of the slowest population growth rates in the UK.. Cardiff has one of the fastest. Houses need to be built accordingly, to accommodate the different rates of growth in different areas. What cannot happen is that we build large amounts of houses in deprived areas and just assume that it will account towards regeneration, when the demand clearly isnt there.

If only it were that simple. The devastation of the economy of the valleys has sent the area into a vicious cycle of socio-economic fuckery. :(
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Kyle

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Re: NIMBYs in the Valleys?

PostWed Jun 21, 2017 10:04 am

moyceyyy wrote:
Kyle wrote:Do any of you ever drive to any towns and villages north of the M4? There ARE houses being built in some of the towns and villages!

People don't want to live in the valleys? Then who is moving into all the new houses going up?


Of course some people are moving in, there will always be migration across the country. However, trying to compare Cardiff and the Valleys in terms of a people moving into the areas at the same scale is crazy. I'd probably say the valleys has about 5% of the housing demand that Cardiff has.

The point is, houses can be built to accommodate people in the valleys, but trying to build 20,000+ homes (as the LDP states) with equal distribution over the areas of Cardiff and the Valleys will result in colossal failure. It's just not that simple. The valleys have some of the slowest population growth rates in the UK.. Cardiff has one of the fastest. Houses need to be built accordingly, to accommodate the different rates of growth in different areas. What cannot happen is that we build large amounts of houses in deprived areas and just assume that it will account towards regeneration, when the demand clearly isnt there.

If only it were that simple. The devastation of the economy of the valleys has sent the area into a vicious cycle of socio-economic fuckery. :(


I'm not comparing them for one minute, and I'm not talking about migration in, just the pure fact that there is housing being built. Some of the posts I regularly see on here seem as if people think there is no house building happening at all and nobody wants to live in 'the valleys'. My point is that there is, relative to the size of some of the towns and villages I pass through regularly there's a fair bit of activity. Many people do want to live in the same town as their families and friends and are happy to commute out, or maybe work here or nearby anyway, or work in Newport, Bristol, Bridgend, further up the valleys and various other places other than Cardiff. I've worked in I.T. for over 20 years, and only for the last year have I worked in Cardiff. When I lived in Cardiff in my 20s I commuted out of the city.

Are the towns and villages in the valleys an economic basket case relative to practically everywhere else in the U.K.?
God Yes and I wish it was different. But not everyone here is on benefits, not everyone is on a piss poor wage. Many of us are doing quite well but choose to live here.
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Re: NIMBYs in the Valleys?

PostWed Jun 21, 2017 11:13 am

moyceyyy wrote:A METROPOLIS LOOOOOOOL

People are moving out of the valleys to find better employment and quality of life/environment. Where are they going?

... Cardiff.



That's not really true. Cardiff sees a net outflow of people to neighbouring authorities: mainly lower valleys areas like Caerphilly, Pontypridd, Llantrisant, Bridgend and the Vale. Typically people with school-aged children who want somewhere bigger and can afford something better outside the city. In 2015, for instance, it is estimated there was net migration from Cardiff-to-Bridgend of 131, Cardiff-to-RCT of 314, and Cardiff-to-Caerphilly of 322.

Population growth in Cardiff has been driven by natural growth (more births than deaths) and international in-migration, offset to some extent by domestic out-migration. Within Wales, Cardiff loses to neighbouring authorities, but gains from the rest of Wales (+750). It tends to lose to big cities in England including London (-605) but gain from shire areas. It loses a little to Scotland, gains a little from Northern Ireland.
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Glen

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Re: NIMBYs in the Valleys?

PostWed Jun 21, 2017 1:10 pm

My daughter recently moved out of Cardiff to buy her first home in RCT, a new build 4 bed detached with garage, large landscaped garden and views of open countryside for little more than the price of a decent 2 bed apartment in the Bay.

The downside is because of congestion it can take her up to 90 minutes to drive the 15 miles into Cardiff for work.
There is no point in the mass building of houses in the Valleys until there is a public transport system fit for purpose.
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