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The Guardian light the blue touch paper - Welsh Schools

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daearegwr

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Re: The Guardian light the blue touch paper - Welsh Schools

PostFri Jun 23, 2017 6:25 pm

Cen wrote:Before somebody else jumps on my back, like I said, I'm all for the Welsh language and want to see it grow. I really don't see the problem with saying Welsh needs more truly Welsh words.


I'm pleased to see you want to see it grow but I don't really understand your comment above. What current Welsh words aren't 'Welsh' enough for you?

I'm a geologist (if you hadn't already guessed from my username) and almost all the technical terms I use daily have a Welsh equivalent.
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Mathew5

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Re: The Guardian light the blue touch paper - Welsh Schools

PostFri Jun 23, 2017 6:42 pm

What does this topic have to do with Cardiff developments?

Critics of the Welsh language are almost always monoglot and don't have self-awareness or intelligence to realise what speaking two languages means and what it entails.

As for the person who said Welsh borrows too many English words - bollocks. We have four words for internet, for example whereas French and German just use 'internet.' I've heard English speakers say things like 'Hur hur, Welsh doesn't have a word for cinema, pizza, telephone, chorizo.' Well, neither does English.

English is the most bastardised language there is and doesn't really belong to anyone or anything anymore.

People need to realise there is a difference between criticising Welsh language policy and the Welsh language. By all means, let's talk about Welsh language policy but don't insult people's language, which is ultimately a lot of Welsh peoppe's entire take and experience of the world.
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Cen

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Re: The Guardian light the blue touch paper - Welsh Schools

PostFri Jun 23, 2017 6:48 pm

Sorry if I've offended people. I don't think I ever insulted the language though. I'm actually quite regretful that I've never learnt it as I was forced to take Latin in school instead, which has been almost useless to me. It was just an observation. I could be wrong. My housemate from North Wales could well have been speaking Wenglish around me :lol:
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RandomComment

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Re: The Guardian light the blue touch paper - Welsh Schools

PostFri Jun 23, 2017 6:54 pm

Cen wrote:Sorry if I've offended people. I don't think I ever insulted the language though. I'm actually quite regretful that I've never learnt it as I was forced to take Latin in school instead, which has been almost useless to me. It was just an observation. I could be wrong. My housemate from North Wales could well have been speaking Wenglish around me :lol:


I think that is very common actually. Where a Welsh word exists, speakers will often use an English word instead. But I think that happens in a lot of languages where there is a dominant or "prestige" language. So in Ghana, where I've been doing a bit of work recently, the lingua franca is not English, its a local language Twi. But interspersed in Twi conversations will be direct English words like "business", "tax" "import". I think its because those kinds of things, people are more used to dealing with in English.. the prestige/business language.
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Mathew5

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Re: The Guardian light the blue touch paper - Welsh Schools

PostFri Jun 23, 2017 6:56 pm

No worries. There are plenty of free Welsh language courses availabke, and I would thoroughly recommend SaySomethingInWelsh.com and Welsh on DuoLingo. There is a huge Welsh learner community in Caediff who meet all over town, including Yr Hen Lyfrgell inthe Hayes, whose lovely cafe bar is reopening on 3 July.

Come along to Tafwyl in Llandaf Fields on 1 and 2 July to hear Welsh being spoken naturally and to listen to some awesome Welsh language bands. I take my non-Welsh speaking friends every year and they love it.
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Jantra

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Re: The Guardian light the blue touch paper - Welsh Schools

PostFri Jun 23, 2017 8:32 pm

My two penneth...

I don't speak Welsh, My kids do. There are lots of mums and dads who speak Welsh (at the school) and naturally speak Welsh to each other. They are always happy to switch codes naturally so I can join the conversation.

I'd say all Welsh speakers speak English and are happy to do so if a conversation involves a monoglot. Most are happy if you try a phrase or two. I have never met anyone who came across as elitist (other than the head) and all seem genuinely happy if you try - even if it sounds terrible to a native.

What I'm getting at is that there are many monoglots who want the Welsh language to thrive. It's not our fault we were born in an anglicised area. Whilst a language alone doesn't define us, us monoglots certainly appreciate it helps give us a unique identity within the UK.
I'd rather be no one than someone with no one.
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Cwlcymro

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Re: The Guardian light the blue touch paper - Welsh Schools

PostSat Jun 24, 2017 1:45 pm

Great reply Jantra - that's exactly the attitude the vast majority of monoglots have, but they're often drowned out by the loud obnoxious ones who think they are part of the 'silent majority' who hates the language.

This article was an utter joke, with pretty much zero research. The fact that it keeps talking about 'Welsh-only schools' pretty much sums it up (there's no such thing, every WM pupil leaves primary fully bilingual). The article also uses a quote from Save the Children to attack Welsh Medium education. Save the Children have made a public statement since saying that they were not asked for a quote and that the quote that was used came from a report backing bilingual education for refuges in the Asian education system!

As far as Llangennech is concerned, there is an English medium school less than 2 miles away, every EM pupil in Llangennech will be able to keep learning through English in Llangennech (the change in language medium will be for new entrants only). Notice as well that the article pushes the idea that turning Carmarthen schools is a Plaid Cymru policy. However the changes came whilst Carmarthen Council was Labour run, and was a response to the Welsh Labour Government's 1m Welsh speakers policy.

Then the article says that since only 20% of Welsh people speak Welsh, supporters of the Welsh language would never want a vote on the matter, ignoring the fact that polls show only 16% of Wales think we'd be better off without the language (62% disagree) whilst only 20% disagree that more needs to be done to preserve Welsh as a living language (53% think that more needs to be done).

Whilst I would disagree with the article for it's anti-Welsh Medium education slant anyway, the fact that is it so full of absolute falsehoods. As someone on Twitter pointed out, if it was a native American language spoken by 99 people and at threat from then the liberal Guardian would be all over protecting it, but they have a history of a massive blind spot when it comes to Welsh.
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Cwlcymro

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Re: The Guardian light the blue touch paper - Welsh Schools

PostSun Jun 25, 2017 4:09 pm

RandomComment wrote:In terms of education, the evidence is bilingualism is good for cognitive development. If thats true why not make education more truly bilingual? (or better yet, trilingual, with some foreign language learning). Get kids reading stuff in English and having to write about stuff in Welsh, or vice versa.


They do this, pretty much daily. Researching things online in English, writing their notes and their work in Welsh or to do it the other way, read this in Welsh and explain it to your parents in English. This is the exact type of thing pupils will do every week in every Welsh Medium school. It's one of the many reasons why WM schools produce bilingual pupils.
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