- Posts: 408
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:55 pm
Maxfli wrote:Mathew5 wrote:I switch to English most of the time too, but in my place of work I will speak Welsh to Welsh speakers and English to English speakers. If the conversation involves 1 Welsh speaker and 2 English speakers then of course I would switch. With learners, I speak Welsh slowly and clearly.
Mathew please don't get me wrong, what you explain here and advocate is fine, why shouldn't you speak your own language to others that use it, especially if it is your first language, it must bring you a lot of pleasure and allow you to express yourself. Like I said my wife and daughter speak Welsh and my daughter is taught in the medium of Welsh, I have tried to learn but don't have a head for languages so I'm never going to be fluent. My intentions are not to attack or moan about the Welsh language, simply to illustrate that the way some people approach the promotion of the language is extremely counter productive. Like I said earlier it is such a shame.
What I am saying, I suppose, is the good manners that you show by switching to English when there is a non-welsh speaker around is generally not my experience. For example I have spent nights out in the pub with welsh speakers and have sat there sometimes for over an hour without a word of English being spoken, even though all parties are well aware I can't speak it, on occasions I have just left the pub to eyes being rolled. I also know from speaking to others that they experience similar situations and of course some in this thread have also confirmed experiencing it, so it must exist.
Also any debate about the Welsh language does generally end in hysteria (proof of this in this thread?) if is there is any deviation from the argument that the way it is promoted is correct and welsh speakers attitudes are correct. It's just very unhealthy and never moves the debate on and I can't understand it.
Do you agree there is a a lot of resentment surrounding this subject? If so how would you suggest we solve this. I do not say this flippantly and am genuinely interested to hear your views on this.
After decades in Plaid and also attending many Cymdeithas events, with only a basic understanding of Welsh, I have to agree with you. Some 1st language Welsh speakers are happy to switch to English if there is a monoglot In their company but many are not. I have learnt some Welsh formally but was put off when, many years ago, I attended a Plaid meeting only to have my greeting of "sut wyt ti?" criticised, then argued over by someone who was very senior in Plaid. I was pronouncing it wrong, according to her, but she was from Bangor and it turns out that in Cardiff I was pronouncing it correctly, according to another member who chipped in on my behalf. There then followed an argument - in English - about what should be the standard form of Welsh.
As someone who took three o-levels in foreign languages (I passed two, getting an "N" in ancient Greek) I'd always thought that I was language-proficient (I went to high school in England so never had the chance to learn Welsh formally as a child). As a result of this public humiliation I gave up learning Welsh formally nearly twenty years ago and now just try to pick up words and phrases where I can.
There is a great deal of centuries-old, completely justified resentment felt by Welsh speakers towards the English and their language. Unfortunately this resentment is often extended to English speaking Welsh people, even nationalists such as myself. I've spent hundred of days and nights at Ty Gwynfor, the Plaid HQ, doing telephone canvassing and have received a great deal of abuse from Welsh speakers simply for having the temerity to be unable to speak Welsh while working for Plaid. To be honest it has upset me greatly but I persevere with my support for the Welsh speakers even though many are very ungrateful and even hostile.
Last edited by Mr Blue Sky on Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.