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The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

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Jantra

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostSat Aug 19, 2017 11:38 am

Mr Blue Sky wrote:
Msmurf wrote:On the subject of Llandaf I am fully in favour of using a standardised Welsh spelling like this to avoid unneccesay translations....I remember all the arguments in the 60s about Llanelli vs Llanelly.... In a few years time everyone will be used to the spelling of Llandaf which will continue to be mispronounced by Cardiffians as Landaff. ..and most other Welsh (English and Welsh speakers) as Llandaff...and only a few purists correctly saying Llandaf.

We should drop all unnecessary alternatives such as Pencoed/Pen-coed even though they may be strictly correct...It just makes us look petty. But it does mean we should adopt more single Welsh spellings such as Caerffili.


I've sat in many a "Cardiff Plaid" meeting and been picked up on my pronunciation of Llandaff by non-Cardiffians. In Cardiff we say LANduf. The Welsh speakers pronounce it llanDAF. To be corrected on how to pronounce a part of my home city by people from outside the city is completely ridiculous. It epitomises the deep divide that exists between Welsh speakers and the rest of us.

I totally agree. Where I grew up we pronounced it canton but some idiots try and tell you it's pronounced pontcanna.

:mrgreen:
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Mr Blue Sky

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostSat Aug 19, 2017 11:43 am

Jantra wrote:
Mr Blue Sky wrote:
Msmurf wrote:On the subject of Llandaf I am fully in favour of using a standardised Welsh spelling like this to avoid unneccesay translations....I remember all the arguments in the 60s about Llanelli vs Llanelly.... In a few years time everyone will be used to the spelling of Llandaf which will continue to be mispronounced by Cardiffians as Landaff. ..and most other Welsh (English and Welsh speakers) as Llandaff...and only a few purists correctly saying Llandaf.

We should drop all unnecessary alternatives such as Pencoed/Pen-coed even though they may be strictly correct...It just makes us look petty. But it does mean we should adopt more single Welsh spellings such as Caerffili.


I've sat in many a "Cardiff Plaid" meeting and been picked up on my pronunciation of Llandaff by non-Cardiffians. In Cardiff we say LANduf. The Welsh speakers pronounce it llanDAF. To be corrected on how to pronounce a part of my home city by people from outside the city is completely ridiculous. It epitomises the deep divide that exists between Welsh speakers and the rest of us.

I totally agree. Where I grew up we pronounced it canton but some idiots try and tell you it's pronounced pontcanna.

:mrgreen:


And so it continues..............
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Simon__200

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostSat Aug 19, 2017 1:12 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:I've sat in many a "Cardiff Plaid" meeting and been picked up on my pronunciation of Llandaff by non-Cardiffians. In Cardiff we say LANduf. The Welsh speakers pronounce it llanDAF. To be corrected on how to pronounce a part of my home city by people from outside the city is completely ridiculous. It epitomises the deep divide that exists between Welsh speakers and the rest of us.

This a completely bogus argument. When I was a child, the locals in Newport had mutated various Welsh names into all sorts of anglicised pronunciations. This was way before the Welsh language resurgence. Gaer, for example, was always pronounce Gair by the locals who knew no different. It doesn't mean that these were correct pronounciations or that these were the pronounciations envisaged when they were named. The only time we ever heard the correct pronounciations of anything Welsh was from television or radio news when an incident had happened somewhere nearby.

You're much more likey to hear places pronounced correctly now though. As far as I know most of the locals still say Maysglaarse for Maesglas, but it's slowly changing, and why should that be a bad thing?
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Jantra

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostSat Aug 19, 2017 1:30 pm

Maybe the English can start calling it glou-sester or bye-sester....

Place names evolve...welsh place names should be no different
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Simon__200

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostSat Aug 19, 2017 1:35 pm

Jantra wrote:Maybe the English can start calling it glou-sester or bye-sester....

Place names evolve...welsh place names should be no different

But ending up with them evolving back to their original is bad?
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Jantra

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostSat Aug 19, 2017 4:50 pm

The English language tends to ebb and flow in all directions.
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Mr Blue Sky

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostSat Aug 19, 2017 7:23 pm

Simon__200 wrote:
Mr Blue Sky wrote:I've sat in many a "Cardiff Plaid" meeting and been picked up on my pronunciation of Llandaff by non-Cardiffians. In Cardiff we say LANduf. The Welsh speakers pronounce it llanDAF. To be corrected on how to pronounce a part of my home city by people from outside the city is completely ridiculous. It epitomises the deep divide that exists between Welsh speakers and the rest of us.

This a completely bogus argument. When I was a child, the locals in Newport had mutated various Welsh names into all sorts of anglicised pronunciations. This was way before the Welsh language resurgence. Gaer, for example, was always pronounce Gair by the locals who knew no different. It doesn't mean that these were correct pronounciations or that these were the pronounciations envisaged when they were named. The only time we ever heard the correct pronounciations of anything Welsh was from television or radio news when an incident had happened somewhere nearby.

You're much more likey to hear places pronounced correctly now though. As far as I know most of the locals still say Maysglaarse for Maesglas, but it's slowly changing, and why should that be a bad thing?


It isn't bogus Simon. It is reality. Come to Penarth and ask to go to the Kymin. Obviously this name has Welsh roots but it's pronounced Kimmin not Kummin. Or ask someone from Llanedeyrn where they are from. I've heard Plaid people pronounce this as Llanedeyrn when everyone in Cardiff calls it Lann-edin.

I'm afraid your attitude is akin to language fascism. The people who live in a place get to pronounce it how they want to, not some outsiders with a superior attitude.
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Jantra

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostSat Aug 19, 2017 7:34 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:I'm afraid your attitude is akin to language fascism. The people who live in a place get to pronounce it how they want to, not some outsiders with a superior attitude.
^^^^this

It's canton
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Mr Blue Sky

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostSat Aug 19, 2017 7:49 pm

Jantra wrote:
Mr Blue Sky wrote:I'm afraid your attitude is akin to language fascism. The people who live in a place get to pronounce it how they want to, not some outsiders with a superior attitude.
^^^^this

It's canton


:D
I'm back in Penarth now mate. How's Cogan working out for you?
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Jantra

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostSat Aug 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:
Jantra wrote:
Mr Blue Sky wrote:I'm afraid your attitude is akin to language fascism. The people who live in a place get to pronounce it how they want to, not some outsiders with a superior attitude.
^^^^this

It's canton


:D
I'm back in Penarth now mate. How's Cogan working out for you?

You mean penarth marina? :mrgreen:
I'd rather be no one than someone with no one.
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