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The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

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Jantra

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostWed Aug 23, 2017 1:40 pm

@Cwlcymro

define proper pronunciation?

should it be Bayern Muenchen or Bayern Munich? or even Bavaria Munich or Bavaria Muenchen?

pontprenner or pontprenni? bather or bethi? which is correct?

which takes us full circle, should you pronounce it Canton or Pontcanna :)
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Mathew5

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostWed Aug 23, 2017 2:35 pm

I think Pontcanna is now an official area designated by the council...
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Cwlcymro

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostWed Aug 23, 2017 2:37 pm

Munich/Munchen isn't a great example as one is an English name for the city and the other the German name (e.g. Cardiff / Caerdydd). Maybe Paris is a better example?

As far as I can see there's five separate situations with place names in Wales:

1. Places with totally different names with different etymology (Swansea / Abertawe)
2. Places with names with similar etymology but have diverted in spelling and pronunciations (Cardiff/Caerdydd, Caerfyrddin/Carmarthen)
3. Places with two spellings in an attempt to keep pronunciation the same (Caerphilly/Caerffili, Wrexham/Wrecsam)
4. Places with just the Welsh spelling, but pronounced differently depending on language (Pontnewydd, Porthmadog)
5. Those nice, simple, rare, places where everyone spells and says it pretty much the same (Cwmbran)

I guess we're talking numbers 3 and 4 here? Personally I think the number 3 ones are insane and petty. We should just pick the one that is correct etymology wise (i.e. the original one) and drop the other one, whichever that might be.

Number 4 is harder because it's not a case of picking one spelling on the signs, it's a matter of what name people prefer to use. Whilst I find it absurd that people stick to pronunciations that make no sense in the language of the word itself, nobody can force people to change the pronunciation of their own home so I'll stick to Pontnewydd and most of my neighbours will keep saying 'Pontnewid' :)
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Cwlcymro

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostWed Aug 23, 2017 2:39 pm

Jantra wrote:@Cwlcymro
which takes us full circle, should you pronounce it Canton or Pontcanna :)



As for Pontcanna and Canton, I have no idea what the in-joke is so I'm scared to tread, but aren't they different areas? Google Maps claims so, as does Cardiff Council.
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Msmurf

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostWed Aug 23, 2017 3:34 pm

Pontcanna has always been a separate place that Canton, although its area has been growing.

This encroachment has been driven by Estate Agents not language activists....although on the other hand you may be thinking of Treganna....
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Jantra

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostWed Aug 23, 2017 5:42 pm

Pontcanna was always down be the leccy club (late of this parish). Apparently pontcanna is now half of canton and riverside
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Jantra

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostWed Aug 23, 2017 5:44 pm

The point about munich is that the football club are known as Bayern (german) munich (english), even by Bayern fans
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Zach

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Re: The Welsh Language a help or hindrance for Wales?

PostWed Aug 23, 2017 6:28 pm

Life must be so hard for you if spelling out place names causes you so much stress. Plenty of people in England need to spell out their town names too you know


Life's ok for me 'cause I live in an easy address, but in the small office where I work about half the people live in new builds with made up Welsh street names, which does cause a daily problem for them.
But then again if you ever cite an example of how Welsh makes folk lives harder, the Welsh language brigade just shout you down and say your the only one.
Two legs bad, Pedwar legs good. :lol:
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