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Is the Quality of Urban Landscape in Cardiff Improving?

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moyceyyy

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Is the Quality of Urban Landscape in Cardiff Improving?

PostTue Nov 28, 2017 9:15 pm

'The tales of URBANO' (this thread will replace the old one)

Recently Cardiff's planning system has allowed some questionable designs to be constructed - Namely 'Bridge Street Tower'. Two others are also under construction:

Herbert Street Tower [Student Accomodation/81m]
Hope Street Tower [Residential/132m]

And a further seven are planned:

Callaghan Square [Mixed Use/95m]
Bayscape [Residential/Hotel/120m]
Capital Quarter 5 [Residential/unknown height - estimate 73m]
Fitzalan Towers [Student Accomodation/95m]
Crawshay Court Tower [Residential/Unkown height - estimate 85m]
Dumballs Road [Residential/estimate 75m]
Premier Inn, Customhouse Sreet [Hotel/estimate 72m]


The designs and proposals aren't the problems, however. Somehow, construction companies are getting away with building these towers with cladding and other materials which are substandard when compared to their renders. Bridge Street Tower is getting a white and red cladding finish when the original renders promised a zinc/copper brushed metal finish. Similar things have happened in Manchester - however, the council caught on it and told the builders to re-start the cladding.

WHY HAS THIS NOT HAPPENED IN CARDIFF YET! If all 10 towers come to fruition and are completed at a sub-standard level, Cardiff will have a serious problem in 40 years time. And Urbano will probably have escaped to the Himalayas!

This thread will go a bit OT - so lets go crazy :)
Last edited by moyceyyy on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jantra

Re: Is the Quality of Urban Landscape in Cardiff Improving?

PostTue Nov 28, 2017 9:19 pm

I think you've stumbled upon the answer to your own queation. The power lies with the planners and it's up to them to make these buildings of a suitably appropriate quality. Developers will value engineer wherever possible.
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moyceyyy

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Re: Is the Quality of Urban Landscape in Cardiff Improving?

PostTue Nov 28, 2017 9:26 pm

Jantra wrote:I think you've stumbled upon the answer to your own queation. The power lies with the planners and it's up to them to make these buildings of a suitably appropriate quality. Developers will value engineer wherever possible.


Well I've always been sceptical to value engineering - I would imagine its a bit harder to stop in a less ludicrous city like Cardiff. Having the council try to reach a compromise in the engineering of buildings may put off companies from building tall here at all. And we definitely dont want that. Its quite a difficult situation imo.

That's 10 towers over 70m though. The place is shooting up - and I wonder how close the residential industry is to saturation point?

URBANO

Re: Is the Quality of Urban Landscape in Cardiff Improving?

PostTue Nov 28, 2017 9:39 pm

Some years ago, this used to be an engaging and very interesting forum, populated by people with very different strongly held,views .......but who approached a huge variety of issues with – yes – determination but also with wit , skill and intelligence. It was presided over by Paul in a tolerant and understanding manner .

Unfortunately, it has now become largely populated (with some notable exceptions- almost exclusively those from previous years) by people who cannot understand what is being said to them, or if they do understand seem incapable of continuing a debate other than on the crudest level , and who seem incapable of distinguishing between a hard edged debate and being hard edged. The consequence has been a level of debate at the lowest common denominator and which has become colossally predictable and boring. It has also become just a numbers game for Paul

What a pity.
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moyceyyy

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Re: Is the Quality of Urban Landscape in Cardiff Improving?

PostTue Nov 28, 2017 10:43 pm

URBANO wrote:Some years ago, this used to be an engaging and very interesting forum, populated by people with very different strongly held,views .......but who approached a huge variety of issues with – yes – determination but also with wit , skill and intelligence. It was presided over by Paul in a tolerant and understanding manner .

Unfortunately, it has now become largely populated (with some notable exceptions- almost exclusively those from previous years) by people who cannot understand what is being said to them, or if they do understand seem incapable of continuing a debate other than on the crudest level , and who seem incapable of distinguishing between a hard edged debate and being hard edged. The consequence has been a level of debate at the lowest common denominator and which has become colossally predictable and boring. It has also become just a numbers game for Paul

What a pity.


Lovely, again.
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Msmurf

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Re: Is the Quality of Urban Landscape in Cardiff Improving?

PostTue Nov 28, 2017 11:07 pm

moyceyyy wrote:'

Under construction:

Herbert Street Tower [Student Accomodation/81m]
Hope Street Tower [Residential/132m]

And a further seven are planned:

Callaghan Square [Mixed Use/95m]
Bayscape [Residential/Hotel/120m]
Capital Quarter 5 [Residential/unknown height - estimate 73m]
Fitzalan Towers [Student Accomodation/95m]
Crawshay Court Tower [Residential/Unkown height - estimate 85m]
Dumballs Road [Residential/estimate 75m]
Premier Inn, Customhouse Sreet [Hotel/estimate 72m]


It is great to see this, and if anyone has the time and IT skills it would be great to turn this into a skyline showing all buildings - existing, under construction, and planned - above a certain height

Maybe start with say 70 or 75 m. We can always change the baseline to 100m and then 200m later...
Build it and they will come.
Get it wrong and they will fall off.
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Admin Paul

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Re: Is the Quality of Urban Landscape in Cardiff Improving?

PostTue Nov 28, 2017 11:32 pm

URBANO wrote:Some years ago, this used to be an engaging and very interesting forum, populated by people with very different strongly held,views .......but who approached a huge variety of issues with – yes – determination but also with wit , skill and intelligence. It was presided over by Paul in a tolerant and understanding manner .

Unfortunately, it has now become largely populated (with some notable exceptions- almost exclusively those from previous years) by people who cannot understand what is being said to them, or if they do understand seem incapable of continuing a debate other than on the crudest level , and who seem incapable of distinguishing between a hard edged debate and being hard edged. The consequence has been a level of debate at the lowest common denominator and which has become colossally predictable and boring. It has also become just a numbers game for Paul

What a pity.


Well I don't share your pessimism for this city's high rise or this forum BUT I do take on board the points you make. Anyway although we've had a spot of bovver here!! I hope it won't discourage more people from getting involved - perhaps not the best time for a recruitment drive! :lol: I feel like these are exciting times for Cardiff's skyline and movements in that direction can be observed / discussed / celebrated / questioned here. Interestingly I can think of about 6 buildings that will be over 75metres in the pipeline that are not student accommodation - I wonder if that will mark an upping of quality for the future when we already have an impressive skyline (That's not to dismiss the quality of the current crop under construction etc. by the way) OK folks let's be calm respectful and nice to fellow cardiffwalesmap forumers! ;)
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paul cardiffwalesmap

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Re: Is the Quality of Urban Landscape in Cardiff Improving?

PostTue Nov 28, 2017 11:37 pm

Msmurf wrote:
moyceyyy wrote:'

Under construction:

Herbert Street Tower [Student Accomodation/81m]
Hope Street Tower [Residential/132m]

And a further seven are planned:

Callaghan Square [Mixed Use/95m]
Bayscape [Residential/Hotel/120m]
Capital Quarter 5 [Residential/unknown height - estimate 73m]
Fitzalan Towers [Student Accomodation/95m]
Crawshay Court Tower [Residential/Unkown height - estimate 85m]
Dumballs Road [Residential/estimate 75m]
Premier Inn, Customhouse Sreet [Hotel/estimate 72m]


It is great to see this, and if anyone has the time and IT skills it would be great to turn this into a skyline showing all buildings - existing, under construction, and planned - above a certain height

Maybe start with say 70 or 75 m. We can always change the baseline to 100m and then 200m later...


Well I did this a while ago - it needs updating, and that's on my to do list! I'll wait and see if john st is going to happen and then update




Image




.
CARDIFFWALESMAP http://www.cardiffwalesmap.com ---- CARDIFWALESMAP TWITTER https://twitter.com/cardiffwalesmap
CARDIFF DEVELOPMENTS flickrphotos https://www.flickr.com/photos/8761770@N05/
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Lewisbeecham

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Re: Is the Quality of Urban Landscape in Cardiff Improving?

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 12:22 am

paul cardiffwalesmap wrote:
Msmurf wrote:
moyceyyy wrote:'

Under construction:

Herbert Street Tower [Student Accomodation/81m]
Hope Street Tower [Residential/132m]

And a further seven are planned:

Callaghan Square [Mixed Use/95m]
Bayscape [Residential/Hotel/120m]
Capital Quarter 5 [Residential/unknown height - estimate 73m]
Fitzalan Towers [Student Accomodation/95m]
Crawshay Court Tower [Residential/Unkown height - estimate 85m]
Dumballs Road [Residential/estimate 75m]
Premier Inn, Customhouse Sreet [Hotel/estimate 72m]


It is great to see this, and if anyone has the time and IT skills it would be great to turn this into a skyline showing all buildings - existing, under construction, and planned - above a certain height

Maybe start with say 70 or 75 m. We can always change the baseline to 100m and then 200m later...


Well I did this a while ago - it needs updating, and that's on my to do list! I'll wait and see if john st is going to happen and then update




Image




.

I thought it was given planning permission?
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paul cardiffwalesmap

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Re: Is the Quality of Urban Landscape in Cardiff Improving?

PostWed Nov 29, 2017 12:49 am

Yes it was but it has since changed and is now two seperate buildings and the tower element has got taller - it's now 100metres. 17/02615/MJR is the planning app link... https://planning.cardiff.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=_CARDIFF_DCAPR_121801
CARDIFFWALESMAP http://www.cardiffwalesmap.com ---- CARDIFWALESMAP TWITTER https://twitter.com/cardiffwalesmap
CARDIFF DEVELOPMENTS flickrphotos https://www.flickr.com/photos/8761770@N05/
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