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Re: Cardiff 15000 arena

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:37 pm
by Simon__200
Peiriannydd wrote:Think about coming out of a gig at 10:30 or 11:00 at night. Anyone here tried to get from Filton to Bristol’s centre at that time of night? It can be tricky enough getting from Bristol Parkway to the centre, I know as I’ve tried on numerous occasions as I lived in Bristol for 4 years!


Filton Abbey Wood to Bristol Temple Meads Monday 20-April-2020
1. Depart 21:20 Arrive 21:28 £3.90
2. Depart 22:12 Arrive 22:23 £3.90
3. Depart 00:25 Arrive 00:39 £3.90

Cardiff Central to Pontypridd Monday 20-April-2020
1. Depart 21:00 Arrive 21:31 £4.80
2. Depart 22:06 Arrive 22:36 £4.80
3. Depart 06:11 Arrive 06:41 £4.80

Re: Cardiff 15000 arena

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:24 pm
by Lewisbeecham
Simon__200 wrote:
Peiriannydd wrote:Think about coming out of a gig at 10:30 or 11:00 at night. Anyone here tried to get from Filton to Bristol’s centre at that time of night? It can be tricky enough getting from Bristol Parkway to the centre, I know as I’ve tried on numerous occasions as I lived in Bristol for 4 years!


Filton Abbey Wood to Bristol Temple Meads Monday 20-April-2020
1. Depart 21:20 Arrive 21:28 £3.90
2. Depart 22:12 Arrive 22:23 £3.90
3. Depart 00:25 Arrive 00:39 £3.90

Cardiff Central to Pontypridd Monday 20-April-2020
1. Depart 21:00 Arrive 21:31 £4.80
2. Depart 22:06 Arrive 22:36 £4.80
3. Depart 06:11 Arrive 06:41 £4.80


Its not totally fair as the rail services have been drastically reduced. Although I think you're main point, being that it will be difficult to get home via rail is still valid.

I agree with everything Peiriannydd said, very well put.

Re: Cardiff 15000 arena

PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:08 pm
by Peiriannydd
Simon__200 wrote:Filton Abbey Wood to Bristol Temple Meads Monday 20-April-2020
1. Depart 21:20 Arrive 21:28 £3.90
2. Depart 22:12 Arrive 22:23 £3.90
3. Depart 00:25 Arrive 00:39 £3.90

Cardiff Central to Pontypridd Monday 20-April-2020
1. Depart 21:00 Arrive 21:31 £4.80
2. Depart 22:06 Arrive 22:36 £4.80
3. Depart 06:11 Arrive 06:41 £4.80


Great, you have two trains coming out at Filton to Temple Meads after 22:00. Sometimes you're lucky and these late trains can have lots of carriages as they're getting them in place for the morning rush, but typically they're two to three carriages. Are several thousand people going to rely on this service? Unless they put on extra local trains it won't be reliable.

Think about it, London's O2 has a capcity of 20,000. The Jubillee Line operates trains of 7 carriages, with an official capacity of 964, running in two directions, typically every 5-10mins at that time of night (the Jubilee line as also part of the Night Tube). Despite that, it's still an effort to get out of the venue.

Most gigs finish around 11:00 with the noise curfew, then you have to factor in time to get out of a venue. Could you realistically get hundreds, potentially thousands of people from Filton to Cardiff (and then beyond) that late at night? You'd be cutting it fine via public transport, which means you'd either have to drive or stay in Bristol overnight, adding to the cost.

I agree the current train times from Cardiff to Pontypridd are dismal. But this timetable is supposed to be drastically improved with the Metro (let's see if that happens).

This arena for Bristol was supposed to be sited around Temple Meads, but they dithered so much that land has now gone to the new Bristol Uni campus. Sticking it out in Filton is going to be far from an ideal situation for servicing Bristol, nevermind about trying to pinch business from the Cardiff area.

I think the current proposal for Cardiff are good and will really fill a gap, let's try to be a bit more optimistic about Cardiff.

Re: Cardiff 15000 arena

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:25 am
by DaiB
Last service to Ponty at usual times is at 2325ish. I believe they're currently running a Sunday service all week. Anyway surely the point about transport, if there is one, is that the arena will be walkable from Cardiff Central so there's no need to rely on a train to get you there if you're averagely fit. And if I wanted to get home to the Valleys then I'd be getting the Bay shuttle to Queen St anyway, which runs every 12 minutes until late.

Re: Cardiff 15000 arena

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:52 am
by Cardiff
I dont know Filton that well, but any current service from Cardiff to the Valleys needs to be improved, my experience is that currently most people in the valleys book a hotel in Cardiff if not driving when attending events, a taxi will set you back around £50 - £80 (price of a budget hotel) depending on where you go and public transport stops around 6-7pm for buses, with little margin for error in missing the few trains after this time. Also there is still a psychological boundary in travelling anywhere in the valleys, we are not 1 city metro yet and i would guess less cohesive than Bristol Metro! Also there is no way someone would consider walking from Central station to the red dragon center, is a good 25-30 minute walk for the average person, and there are is no major transport link from central to the bay (could trams really cope with this capacity, how many carriages can a tram pull without blocking the streets?)

Re: Cardiff 15000 arena

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:08 am
by DaiB
Nah, 20 minutes walk at most if you do it at a reaonsonable pace, used to do it all the time.

I think a lot depends on where you live in the Valleys. I live in Treforest and trains are plentiful and the last bus is at 23:25 (runs to Porth), but I fully accept that once you get north of Pontypridd / Caerphilly stuff gets a lot more sketchy and this is what the metro will hopefully improve.

The thing about Cardiff's hinterland is that it's long, narrow and sprawling as opposed to closely gathered in around the city, so it's natural that people don't necessarily feel part of a wider city region. On the other hand it's perfect for developing efficient transport corridoors.

Re: Cardiff 15000 arena

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:22 am
by daearegwr
Bristol are planning a new railway station to serve the site so no need to walk to Filton Abbey Wood or Patchway stations. I imagine they'll also be running regular shuttles to Parkway as well (which is 2 miles from the site). If they get it built first I think Cardiff's arena will struggle. The proximity to both M4 and M5 will help Bristol as well (lots of people do drive to major arena concerts). Imagine people trying to drive to Cardiff Bay along rover way. We need that link road completed to help with the arena development.

Re: Cardiff 15000 arena

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:49 am
by Simon_SW17
I didn't know about their station plans at Filton. However, railway infrastructure is renowned for being very slow, there are lots of planning and permission hurdles to overcome, 3 years isn't an unusual timescale to get spades in the ground from project launch. The other issue for the YTL Arena will be which trains will stop at the new station. Currently GWR send very small and packed trains along the line and it's highly unlikely that high speed London GWR trains will ever stop there.

If the Metro Bay plan comes to fruition on time (2023), the Bay will have 6 trains per hour and they will be 4 carriage tram trains so plenty of capacity. There is also a plan to add a line to Central at some point, although no planned date as yet.

There's also the Bay Car and Central is walkable if necessary as mentioned by Dai.

Re: Cardiff 15000 arena

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:47 pm
by Cardiff
Im sorry but as someone who walked Lloyd George nearly every day for 5 years it is not walkable for someone who doesnt know the city, is attending an event and is weather dependant. It is only walkable by those healthy and fit, and without kids, baggage etc. In reality Lloyd George does take 20 minutes to walk at a good pace, but add on another 10 minutes to central, add on possibly more depending if you are staying in the north of the city center (Hilton/Park Plaza/Mecure etc) and it soon turns into an arduous walk. Unless there is a direct link from central to the bay i cant see public transport being successful, and this link needs to be sorted asap.

Re: Cardiff 15000 arena

PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:28 pm
by daearegwr
Simon_SW17 wrote:I didn't know about their station plans at Filton. However, railway infrastructure is renowned for being very slow, there are lots of planning and permission hurdles to overcome, 3 years isn't an unusual timescale to get spades in the ground from project launch. The other issue for the YTL Arena will be which trains will stop at the new station. Currently GWR send very small and packed trains along the line and it's highly unlikely that high speed London GWR trains will ever stop there.

If the Metro Bay plan comes to fruition on time (2023), the Bay will have 6 trains per hour and they will be 4 carriage tram trains so plenty of capacity. There is also a plan to add a line to Central at some point, although no planned date as yet.

There's also the Bay Car and Central is walkable if necessary as mentioned by Dai.


It's effectively replacing the old North Filton station which closed years ago. Looks like it already has permission with planned opening of May 2021. Connecting to temple meads so won't be on mainline but there is a 'metrobus' connection to Parkway (10 min journey time) but that would be overwhelmed during an event I imagine.