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Metro

if it's about Cardiff.. Sport, Entertainment, Transportation, Business, Development Projects, Leisure, Eating, Drinking, Nightlife, Shopping, Train Spotting! etc.. then we want it here!
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Zach

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Re: Metro

PostSun Jan 08, 2017 1:58 pm

On the subject of referendums which I know is very much OT

Carwyn seems to be bending over backward to the minority who lost in Wales, which seems very strange....

Whereas the devolution refernedum in 97 with a much closer result and with far less turnout, they don't give two hoots about the minority (actually the Majority) and are now getting tax raising powers (akin to ultra hard Brexit) without asking the people do they want more powers, or less powers for the WAG (Welsh Amateur Government)
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redragon

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Re: Metro

PostSun Jan 08, 2017 7:18 pm

Without sounding too much like Margret thatcher, I don't think the country should be run based on holding referendums.
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Simon_SW17

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Re: Metro

PostSun Jan 08, 2017 9:37 pm

Completely agree, as the Brexit situation shows, a country's future cannot be decided by people's prejudices and fears.

Look what happens :cry:
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Peiriannydd

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Re: Metro

PostSun Jan 08, 2017 10:34 pm

Do you honestly think that people don't vote in elections based upon their prejudices and fears? Should we, by your argument, also take away people’s right to vote in parliamentary elections because they may not vote in a rational way, or lack the ability to process all the information and make an “informed” decision?

Those sort of arguments were bandied around by those who argued against universal suffrage during the 19th and 20th centuries. Isn’t it funny how we’ve almost come full circle, with liberalism spawning its own form of bigotry.


Back to the topic of this thread: The Metro
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-sout ... s-38548453

Good to see universal support for this and commission’s need for “rapid implementation” for the city region plans and to “avoid further reviews”.

I quite agree, less talk and more action!
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Simon_SW17

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Re: Metro

PostMon Jan 09, 2017 12:26 am

I didn't put that properly, what I mean is that the general populous shouldn't be given decisions of huge importance. We have governments to do this. We hope that they are generally intelligent and knowledgeable and have the country's best interests at heart. This isn't always the case of course but nations can't be run by referendum. I suspect that many of those who might think it's a good idea are those who voted leave.
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Peiriannydd

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Re: Metro

PostMon Jan 09, 2017 2:04 am

Simon_SW17 wrote:I didn't put that properly, what I mean is that the general populous shouldn't be given decisions of huge importance. We have governments to do this. We hope that they are generally intelligent and knowledgeable and have the country's best interests at heart. This isn't always the case of course but nations can't be run by referendum. I suspect that many of those who might think it's a good idea are those who voted leave.


The flaw in that argument (as you elude to) is the erroneous assumption that governments are formed by intelligent people who have the nation’s interest at the heart of their decision making.

Leaving constitution matters entirely in the hands of MPs/ministers could provide results that are equally controversial or unpleasant, depending upon your perspective. Consider the implications of the SNP-led Scottish Government being able to declare Scottish independence without a referendum simply because they've won an election? Or perhaps the next Westminster Government decides to scrap devolution entirely? Unthinkable? Well, Westminster canned the Northern Irish parliament due to the “Troubles”, so it’s not without precedent.

No, the country cannot be run by referendums and most decisions are best made by Parliament. But equally, some issues need the expressed consent of the people and I think constitutional settlements are such cases. What I would say, however, is that constitutional changes of such magnitude should require a greater mandate than 50% of those who bothered to turnout.
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Mathew5

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Re: Metro

PostMon Jan 09, 2017 11:01 am

Zach - many of us are growing tired of your anti-Welsh views.

The Senedd is here to stay. A majority was a majority and this was confirmed in two referendums in 1997 and 2011. The abolish the Welsh Assembly types are the sorest losers in Welsh political history and you need to move on. You sound even worse than the remoaners.

Please don't make the mistake of confusing devolution with a Welsh Labour Government. We have a startup democracy in Wales and have more of a chance of changing our nation than if we were still totally controlled from an uncaring Westminster.

'Apologising' for photo displaying the Welsh language is disgusting and unacceptable, especially to the Welsh speakers who use this forum.

As for Carwyn Jones, yes, he is largely a tool. But if you don't like your meal, you don't close down the restaurant - you pick something else off the menu.

As for the Metro - this is something that would never ever have happened without devolution.

Jantra

Re: Metro

PostMon Jan 09, 2017 1:14 pm

Mathew5 wrote:Zach - many of us are growing tired of your anti-Welsh views.

it would appear as if we have all moved to North korea, where differences of opinion aren't tolerated. I personally cannot abide the nats or the brexiters, but they are fully entitled to their opinions and can opine as often as they like.

Mathew5 wrote:The Senedd is here to stay. A majority was a majority and this was confirmed in two referendums in 1997 and 2011. The abolish the Welsh Assembly types are the sorest losers in Welsh political history and you need to move on. You sound even worse than the remoaners.

why couldn't we have 45 MPs vote in Westminster on devolved matters? Why did we need more government and more state?

Mathew5 wrote:Please don't make the mistake of confusing devolution with a Welsh Labour Government. We have a startup democracy in Wales and have more of a chance of changing our nation than if we were still totally controlled from an uncaring Westminster.

Wales is not a start up democracy. Wales has enjoyed parliamentary representation going back hundreds of years.

Mathew5 wrote:'Apologising' for photo displaying the Welsh language is disgusting and unacceptable, especially to the Welsh speakers who use this forum.

get over yourself. its not disgusting by any stretch. by all means disagree with it, but perhaps you should be a little more tolerant of someone else who doesn't share your world view.


Mathew5 wrote:As for Carwyn Jones, yes, he is largely a tool. But if you don't like your meal, you don't close down the restaurant - you pick something else off the menu.
this restaurant appears to be single menu. There isn't much difference between the leftist nonsense emanating from Labour as there is the nats. both say the sun will shine every day and no child will ever go hungry. its all bollocks of course.
Mathew5 wrote:As for the Metro - this is something that would never ever have happened without devolution.

would you mind explaining just how you have seen into this parallel universe. Your talents are wasrted here and would probably be better utilised at CERN.
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Mathew5

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Re: Metro

PostMon Jan 09, 2017 2:27 pm

Jantra wrote:
Mathew5 wrote:Zach - many of us are growing tired of your anti-Welsh views.

it would appear as if we have all moved to North korea, where differences of opinion aren't tolerated. I personally cannot abide the nats or the brexiters, but they are fully entitled to their opinions and can opine as often as they like.

-- I'm not being intolerant. I'm not trying to shut down debate like you are. But this is a forum for new developments in Cardiff. Why rant about a referendum that happened 20 years ago?

Mathew5 wrote:The Senedd is here to stay. A majority was a majority and this was confirmed in two referendums in 1997 and 2011. The abolish the Welsh Assembly types are the sorest losers in Welsh political history and you need to move on. You sound even worse than the remoaners.

why couldn't we have 45 MPs vote in Westminster on devolved matters? Why did we need more government and more state?

Why couldn't the 40 Welsh MPs have been moved to Cardiff and a federal arrangement put in place from the word go? What is the point of sending Welsh MPs to Westminster now?

Mathew5 wrote:Please don't make the mistake of confusing devolution with a Welsh Labour Government. We have a startup democracy in Wales and have more of a chance of changing our nation than if we were still totally controlled from an uncaring Westminster.

Wales is not a start up democracy. Wales has enjoyed parliamentary representation going back hundreds of years.

Then you clearly have a very warped view of parliamentary representation! England always outvoted the Welsh on everything. Need I remind of you of Tryweryn? Or the closure of the mines? If we'd had devolution in 1950, neither of these things would have happened.

Mathew5 wrote:'Apologising' for photo displaying the Welsh language is disgusting and unacceptable, especially to the Welsh speakers who use this forum.

get over yourself. its not disgusting by any stretch. by all means disagree with it, but perhaps you should be a little more tolerant of someone else who doesn't share your world view.

By all means, you can criticise Welsh language policy all day long. I welcome it. But don't attack the language or its speakers. There's a major difference. How are you Welsh lessons coming along, by the way? Dal ati!


Mathew5 wrote:As for Carwyn Jones, yes, he is largely a tool. But if you don't like your meal, you don't close down the restaurant - you pick something else off the menu.
this restaurant appears to be single menu. There isn't much difference between the leftist nonsense emanating from Labour as there is the nats. both say the sun will shine every day and no child will ever go hungry. its all bollocks of course.

You do know you can vote for the Conservatives, Liberals and UKIP, don't you?

Mathew5 wrote:As for the Metro - this is something that would never ever have happened without devolution.

would you mind explaining just how you have seen into this parallel universe. Your talents are wasrted here and would probably be better utilised at CERN.


Money goes to money. Wales has been left to rot for centuries. Westminster would never have opened the VoG or Ebbw lines, let alone propose an integrated transport network.
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Zach

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Re: Metro

PostMon Jan 09, 2017 6:16 pm

Mathew(5) I wasn't going to even bother to reply but why not!


The reason I apologised for the Welsh was I only realised that the photo I had taken caught the Welsh translation on the display board! It would probably make more sense to most if I had of used the English version, since last time I checked every post on here is in English, I would do the same again if I posted a link to a planning application in Welsh by mistake. Don't think of it as a slur, grow up.

I am not anti Welsh, just the way it is currently being run, which I believe you are in agreement with me on that one, however unlike you I blame the way devolution was set up, it should have been realised that Wales is a one party state, perhaps we should have had a system like Northern Ireland where it's a permanent coalition . Hang on they can't frame legislation either!
Speaking of not being able to frame legislation, the way the Welsh Language act itself has been framed has been criticised as overly complicated and badly drafted, by the people who drafted it in the first place.
I see this over and over again, legislation drafted by amateur politicians, essentially to duplicate something that Westminster has already done. The Welsh Health service is full of it and the result we can't get doctors or specialists to come to Wales.

You say the Metro would only happen with devolution?? How on earth do large English conurbations manage without a First Minister, 40 Assembly members, civil service, fleet of cars? No wonder their GVA is way behind Wales :?
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