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Metro

if it's about Cardiff.. Sport, Entertainment, Transportation, Business, Development Projects, Leisure, Eating, Drinking, Nightlife, Shopping, Train Spotting! etc.. then we want it here!
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penarth bloke

  • Posts: 111
  • Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:10 am

Re: Metro

PostThu Aug 28, 2014 6:50 pm

Branding is very important, the Tube is a very good example of this. A brand might encourage more use of the metro. It is true that being near a tube station affects property prices and adds to the dynamism of an area and that could happen to towns and villages near metro stations in the proposed South Wales metro and branding would help in connecting metro and bus services. So it would be in the interests of the like of Cardiff Bus and others to engage positively in working together. The metro and buses could share the same livery while keeping their individual names. As for a name, I would favour Cardiff Area Rapid Transport (CART) with a livery of green and red.

Jantra

Re: Metro

PostThu Aug 28, 2014 8:42 pm

There is nothing in that about sticking shovels in the ground. It's more public sector nonsense and largesse I'm afraid. Even the next six to nine months is about governance and framework. What sort of simpletons are running this project? With all due respect private sector projects of this scale are up and running by now.
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Simon_SW17

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Re: Metro

PostThu Aug 28, 2014 8:55 pm

Jantra wrote:There is nothing in that about sticking shovels in the ground. It's more public sector nonsense and largesse I'm afraid. Even the next six to nine months is about governance and framework. What sort of simpletons are running this project? With all due respect private sector projects of this scale are up and running by now.


And the problem with major transport projects is that there is a massive lead time to actual construction. There are detailed designs, public inquiries, Transport and Works Orders, construction contract awards and then construction and testing which take YEARS to get through.

We're nowhere near stage one and it's been 2 years since this idea was floated. It's beyond shit.
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Neil

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Re: Metro

PostFri Aug 29, 2014 8:29 am

"The entire network - which could be built by 2030 - would involve trains, buses and trams and could cost over £2bn if realised"

2030! Seriously is anybody supposed to be impressed by that? I would be deeply embarrassed.
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murfilicious

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  • Location: Cardiff

Re: Metro

PostFri Aug 29, 2014 8:36 am

Neil wrote:"The entire network - which could be built by 2030 - would involve trains, buses and trams and could cost over £2bn if realised"

2030! Seriously is anybody supposed to be impressed by that? I would be deeply embarrassed.

2030 is an initial estimate, these estimated dates always slip - until recently the Ely Mill website said they'd have the first homes ready for people to move in by Q3 2014!

I can guarantee we will still be talking about this in 10 years time and still nothing substantial would have been done!
Some days you are the pigeon and some days you are the statue...

Jantra

Re: Metro

PostFri Aug 29, 2014 11:58 am

Simon_SW17 wrote:
Jantra wrote:There is nothing in that about sticking shovels in the ground. It's more public sector nonsense and largesse I'm afraid. Even the next six to nine months is about governance and framework. What sort of simpletons are running this project? With all due respect private sector projects of this scale are up and running by now.


And the problem with major transport projects is that there is a massive lead time to actual construction. There are detailed designs, public inquiries, Transport and Works Orders, construction contract awards and then construction and testing which take YEARS to get through.

We're nowhere near stage one and it's been 2 years since this idea was floated. It's beyond shit.


yet somehow the Chinese built over a 1000 miles of high speed rail in six years. it would appear all that paperwork and bureaucracy that you allude to probably isn't necessary, but keeps politicians and their pals at major consultancy firms going for a few years.

the whole project is a shambles and all it will achieve is putting taxpayers money into the hands of a few consultancy firms. We can't even afford half a mile of light rail between the capital's main station and bay so all of this light rail metro network is just a pipedream.
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RandomComment

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Re: Metro

PostFri Aug 29, 2014 3:01 pm

Jantra - the comparison with China is not fair. China is a dictatorship, the UK is a democracy.

Things take longer in democracies - thats the price of freedom and giving people their say. And compared to most democracies, the UK does more to analyse the impact of policies/projects to look at things like cost/benefit and potential adverse effects. These can slow individual projects up, but can, when applied properly, prevent money being wasted on poor projects. I wish that was what was happening with HS2 - but even here, when there is political will, some policies become steam-rollers than run over the facts and figures.

If you want people to have their say (their chance to object usually), and you want to evauate plans ex-ante - it will take longer to get things done. I think its a price worth paying for a freer country that wastes less money. But I agree that somteimes things do take longer than they should even with these safeguards. That is because our legal system weights too highly "legal technicalities" as opposed to "practical issues", so things get held up by appeal after appeal. And the decision-making of the Welsh government does seem particularly schlerotic.

But really.. if you'd rather live in China...

Jantra

Re: Metro

PostFri Aug 29, 2014 3:09 pm

I never said I'd rather live in China. What I said was that China managed to build 1000 miles of high speed rail in six years. Now the people of China appreciate they need high speed rail so they go and get it done. The people of the UK want HS2 and the people of South Wales want the Metro but it just doesn't go and get delivered, it gets held up time and again.

Having bureaucracy and processes is not democracy, Stalin and the USSR had plenty of both and I'm not sure I'd hold up either as a shining light of democracy and freedom.

do we need the Metro? Yes - now I appreciate that my analysis may not stand up to scrutiny but I reckon my analysis is pretty accurate. how many papers did I write to come to that conclusion, how many consultations, reports and other such 'required' deliverables did I prepare before reaching my conclusion?

as we have quite quickly answered whether we need a metro or not what other questions need answering meaning that a start can be made on even the most basic parts today? probably a few forms haven't been filled in correctly in quadruplicate and sent to all interested parties but we could have work starting on monday if we can get the emails out today.... :roll:

We need to accept that the UK is pretty poor in terms of project delivery rather than making excuses of why delivery takes so long. seemingly it is much better to have mountains of paperwork and reports that nobody will ever actually read rather than boots on the ground creating the bloody network that is required.
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wizard

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Re: Metro

PostFri Aug 29, 2014 9:24 pm

Now hold on a cotton picking minute Jantra. We've got the new bus shelter on the reclaimed de-weeded platform at Queen St - what more do you want for a once in a lifetime ' tens of millions of pounds ' rail infrastructure upgrade - a newspaper kiosk???
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redragon

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Re: Metro

PostFri Aug 29, 2014 11:29 pm

That kind of mind set is what resulted in the many shit post war British developments that have either since been redeveloped or continue to blight rural and urban areas. Vague policy, little it no consultation and a small man with a point to prove. I'd also be interested to compare injury and death rates in China's major building sites compared to here...not to mention other human rights, like hours of work etc.
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