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Metro

if it's about Cardiff.. Sport, Entertainment, Transportation, Business, Development Projects, Leisure, Eating, Drinking, Nightlife, Shopping, Train Spotting! etc.. then we want it here!
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Msmurf

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Re: Metro

PostWed Jan 15, 2020 5:07 pm

Last edited by Msmurf on Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jacobfox

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Re: Metro

PostWed Jan 15, 2020 5:17 pm

It says the link not found?
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Msmurf

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Re: Metro

PostWed Jan 15, 2020 5:52 pm

I am very happy that Crossrail Phase 1 will be delivered by 2024 although this sounds optimistic considering that this will need building a flyover at Cardiff West junction, new on-street lines around Callaghan Square and a connection to existing Bay line.

But can someone explain why Victoria Park station can not be delivered before 2028....the City line is already operational...with space available for station. Why can this not form part of Crossrail in 2024?

The biggest ommission seems to be any mention of development of Cardiff Central Station...pretty fundamental part of a transport plan to 2030.....even if not directly under control of Cardiff Council or TfW...still deserves a mention.
Last edited by Msmurf on Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Build it and they will come.
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Msmurf

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Re: Metro

PostWed Jan 15, 2020 5:52 pm

jacobfox wrote:It says the link not found?

Link updated....try again...
Build it and they will come.
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Brian62

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Re: Metro

PostThu Jan 16, 2020 12:46 pm

I'm not keen. Cardiff doesn't really have a congestion problem, it has too many traffic lights, terrible road layout and under used bus lanes. As to pollution, never believe any numbers from the public health lobby.
If they go ahead with the tram/train system it will be delivered late and over budget. The disruption will drive a number of business under, increasing Cardiff council's budget pressures.
My experience of tram systems elsewhere (Manchester, Edinburgh, Birmingham, Croydon and Melbourne) leads me to believe Edward England and the lower levels of zenith will be uninhabitable due to the noise as trams turn at the top of Lloyd George avenue.
By the time it is running (if ever) it will be redundant as electric, maybe fuel cell, self drive cars will result in car ownership dropping with a big switch to car hire and sharing making large sections of public transport no longer needed. That puts the mockers on the congestion charge as well.
Why so pessimistic?
My first job was in Soho in the 1970s, they were talking about crossrail in London then. Over forty years later and it might be running later this year, over budget and late. Jubilee line extension very late and unreliable. The Edinburgh tram system, massively over budget and very late and not really needed. Cardiff council are no more competent than any others around the UK so their chances of delivering this as planned I'd rate close to zero.
Better off concentrating on delivering those bike lanes, more buses and fixing some of the dodgy road layouts that should be doable and shouldn't bankrupt us.
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Mr Blue Sky

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Re: Metro

PostThu Jan 16, 2020 1:28 pm

The congestion charge will depress house prices outside Cardiff and raise them inside the city. The gap between affluent Cardiff and the poor Valleys will grow. Also, if the plan is to charge non-residents as soon as they drive across the city boundary what will this mean for people in Taffs Well, Dinas Powis and Penarth? I’d imagine that the majority of people in these places shop in retail parks in Cardiff, be it Asda Coryton or the retail parks at Leckwith and Cardiff Bay.

What’s more, people living in Dinas Powis or Penarth face a long (and carbon-emitting) detour if they wish to drive to England or the eastern valleys. At the moment people will use the A4232 eastbound, joining at either Leckwith or the end of the Cogan spur. Will Cardiff charge these people £2 for merely using the Cardiff outer ring-road?

This is a very poorly thought-out proposal. Charging people to drive into the city centre is understandable but placing a tax on entering the county is deeply unfair and will reinforce the existing inequalities.
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RandomComment

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Re: Metro

PostThu Jan 16, 2020 1:43 pm

Mr Blue Sky wrote:The congestion charge will depress house prices outside Cardiff and raise them inside the city. The gap between affluent Cardiff and the poor Valleys will grow. Also, if the plan is to charge non-residents as soon as they drive across the city boundary what will this mean for people in Taffs Well, Dinas Powis and Penarth? I’d imagine that the majority of people in these places shop in retail parks in Cardiff, be it Asda Coryton or the retail parks at Leckwith and Cardiff Bay.

What’s more, people living in Dinas Powis or Penarth face a long (and carbon-emitting) detour if they wish to drive to England or the eastern valleys. At the moment people will use the A4232 eastbound, joining at either Leckwith or the end of the Cogan spur. Will Cardiff charge these people £2 for merely using the Cardiff outer ring-road?

This is a very poorly thought-out proposal. Charging people to drive into the city centre is understandable but placing a tax on entering the county is deeply unfair and will reinforce the existing inequalities.


I'd be pretty sure there will be bypass routes where the charge doesn't apply. That would be the A4232 and the M4, for example. I don't think that would significantly increase congestion on those roads though, as people wanting to bypass Cardiff itself will be using these roads anyway. For example, noone from Newport to Barry will drive though Cardiff, for example - they will go to J33 and use the A4232.

Clearly completion of the Eastern Bay Link would make the A4232 more attractive as an eastern as well as western by pass route.
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Lewisbeecham

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Re: Metro

PostThu Jan 16, 2020 2:47 pm

No boundary has been confirmed. The council have a year to decide on all matters to do with the charge. By the time the charge is introduced in 2025 it would likely be increased already to say £3.
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Msmurf

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Re: Metro

PostThu Jan 16, 2020 3:55 pm

Brian62 wrote:I'm not keen. Cardiff doesn't really have a congestion problem, it has too many traffic lights, terrible road layout and under used bus lanes. As to pollution, never believe any numbers from the public health lobby.
If they go ahead with the tram/train system it will be delivered late and over budget. The disruption will drive a number of business under, increasing Cardiff council's budget pressures.
My experience of tram systems elsewhere (Manchester, Edinburgh, Birmingham, Croydon and Melbourne) leads me to believe Edward England and the lower levels of zenith will be uninhabitable due to the noise as trams turn at the top of Lloyd George avenue.
By the time it is running (if ever) it will be redundant as electric, maybe fuel cell, self drive cars will result in car ownership dropping with a big switch to car hire and sharing making large sections of public transport no longer needed. That puts the mockers on the congestion charge as well.
Why so pessimistic?
My first job was in Soho in the 1970s, they were talking about crossrail in London then. Over forty years later and it might be running later this year, over budget and late. Jubilee line extension very late and unreliable. The Edinburgh tram system, massively over budget and very late and not really needed. Cardiff council are no more competent than any others around the UK so their chances of delivering this as planned I'd rate close to zero.
Better off concentrating on delivering those bike lanes, more buses and fixing some of the dodgy road layouts that should be doable and shouldn't bankrupt us.


The plans dont include trams on Lloyd George Avenue - they involve using the existing Cardiff Bay line with s connection to Callaghan Square. And replacing the noisy and ancient diesel shuttle with an electric tram-train.

Shall we put you down as a maybe... or as an unsaveable dinosaur?
Build it and they will come.
Get it wrong and they will fall off.
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Brian62

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Re: Metro

PostThu Jan 16, 2020 5:15 pm

Ah, ok. I have seen plans where it goes down Lloyd George avenue in the past as Cardiff bay station prevents the line going further. If it uses the existing line it still needs to swing off to one side before the station to progress to roald Dahl plas.

This still creates noise. Trams can make a very high pitched squeel as they change direction, the tighter the turn the louder the noise. The wider the turn the more space they take up. Some of Callaghan square will be eaten up by the tram swinging round to join the existing train line, not sure the council will appreciate the noise if they do move their offices up there. When it diverts round Cardiff bay station it's going to make one hell of a racket.

None of this changes the abysmal record of infrastructure projects in the UK nor the coming of self drive electric and or fuel cell cars which renders the plan pointless. The council are not planning for the long term here just short/medium. If there was anything beyond the usual ban it/tax it/control the proles/splurge money council's and governments always come up with it might be interesting. As it is in twenty years time Abandoned Engineering will have a segment on mysterious metal rails suspended over the Taff.
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