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General Developments

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Ash

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Re: General Developments

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 12:46 pm

Frank wrote:Surely the easiest way to build 'affordable' housing is to build rubbish?


Which is the defence developers offer in the original Guardian article about Manchester being the "0% City"

The council’s focus is about increasing quality at the same time as increasing supply, said Higgins: “Ultimately as a private sector developer the only way you can build it cheaper is to build poorer quality and what everybody is paranoid about doing, including the council, all credit to them, is to start repeating the mistakes of the 1960s. Look at Grenfell Tower and places like that.”


https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/mar/06/the-0-city-how-manchester-developers-dodge-affordable-housing

Obviously, there is an element of trade off but recent affordable housing in places like Ferry Road and The Mill appears to be of a reasonable standard. Personally I'd far prefer to live in a socially mixed community than in a city of 'quality' tower blocks left empty by their foreign based owners.
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LocalResident

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Re: General Developments

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 2:05 pm

Looks like Cardiff Council are putting in a bid to try and get one of the three Channel 4 production centres...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43366692
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RandomComment

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Re: General Developments

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 5:55 pm

Ash wrote:
Frank wrote:Surely the easiest way to build 'affordable' housing is to build rubbish?


Which is the defence developers offer in the original Guardian article about Manchester being the "0% City"

The council’s focus is about increasing quality at the same time as increasing supply, said Higgins: “Ultimately as a private sector developer the only way you can build it cheaper is to build poorer quality and what everybody is paranoid about doing, including the council, all credit to them, is to start repeating the mistakes of the 1960s. Look at Grenfell Tower and places like that.”


https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2018/mar/06/the-0-city-how-manchester-developers-dodge-affordable-housing

Obviously, there is an element of trade off but recent affordable housing in places like Ferry Road and The Mill appears to be of a reasonable standard. Personally I'd far prefer to live in a socially mixed community than in a city of 'quality' tower blocks left empty by their foreign based owners.


The problem that plagues social housing is that developers can negotiate the requirements. That means they can bid more for the land, and then when it comes round to the social housing assessment claim the development won't be viable with the level of social housing required.

If it was a fixed proportion (e.g. not necessarily across all LAs, but perhaps zoned by district or type of development), then there wouldn't be scope for negotiation, so developers wouldn't "overbid" for land. Land prices would fall to compensate for the higher social housing requirement.

So councils probably think they are making it easier to develop social housing by being flexible ("at least we get something"). But by encouraging increases in land values, they actually make it harder!
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Lewisbeecham

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Re: General Developments

PostMon Mar 12, 2018 7:42 pm

LocalResident wrote:Looks like Cardiff Council are putting in a bid to try and get one of the three Channel 4 production centres...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43366692


Should be a no-brainer really for Channel 4. There's plenty of new fancy building shooting up that they could get their hands on. Perhaps the last Central Square unit next to the HMRC?
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Dr O

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Re: General Developments

PostWed Mar 14, 2018 12:07 am

The building next to The Custom House at the Penarth end of the barrage is for sale. The price seems rather a lot for something in such poor condition but I don't really know much about commercial property values. It's in a great location and I'd love to see something worthwhile done with the plot even if the building can't be saved.

http://www.ejhales.co.uk/property/marin ... 1tt---1285

Also while poking round EJ Hales website I noticed that one of the three commercial units at Bayscape is listed as under offer, which is good.
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Mr Blue Sky

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Re: General Developments

PostWed Mar 14, 2018 11:34 am

Dr O wrote:The building next to The Custom House at the Penarth end of the barrage is for sale. The price seems rather a lot for something in such poor condition but I don't really know much about commercial property values. It's in a great location and I'd love to see something worthwhile done with the plot even if the building can't be saved.

http://www.ejhales.co.uk/property/marin ... 1tt---1285

Also while poking round EJ Hales website I noticed that one of the three commercial units at Bayscape is listed as under offer, which is good.


Members of my extended family have built two properties from scratch, in Penarth, in the last three years and land does not come cheap. I’d estimate the value of the land as being at around £1 million. This article https://penarthnews.wordpress.com/2018/ ... -for-sale/ says that the current owners (who own the Custom House) estimated that it would cost £7 million to renovate the Marine Buildings and create an hotel.

One sticking point that I envisage is parking. The Custom House car park (which presumably any hotel in the Marine Buildings would need to share) is often full to bursting and dividing it between two separate businesses could be problematic as it would be almost permanently at or over capacity.
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LocalResident

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Re: General Developments

PostWed Mar 14, 2018 11:48 am

Mr Blue Sky wrote:
Dr O wrote:The building next to The Custom House at the Penarth end of the barrage is for sale. The price seems rather a lot for something in such poor condition but I don't really know much about commercial property values. It's in a great location and I'd love to see something worthwhile done with the plot even if the building can't be saved.

http://www.ejhales.co.uk/property/marin ... 1tt---1285

Also while poking round EJ Hales website I noticed that one of the three commercial units at Bayscape is listed as under offer, which is good.


Members of my extended family have built two properties from scratch, in Penarth, in the last three years and land does not come cheap. I’d estimate the value of the land as being at around £1 million. This article https://penarthnews.wordpress.com/2018/ ... -for-sale/ says that the current owners (who own the Custom House) estimated that it would cost £7 million to renovate the Marine Buildings and create an hotel.

One sticking point that I envisage is parking. The Custom House car park (which presumably any hotel in the Marine Buildings would need to share) is often full to bursting and dividing it between two separate businesses could be problematic as it would be almost permanently at or over capacity.

I am pretty sure the owners of the custom house got planning permissions agreed to turn the building into a hotel, along with a 2 story car park around the back of the building (built into the cliff/bank). Maybe someone will pick it up to continue with the same plans. I would be surprised if, being a listed building, it could be completely replaced.

EDIT - Oh, looks like the planning application expired as it older than 5 years - http://vogonline.planning-register.co.uk/PlaRecord.aspx?AppNo=2011/01178/LBC

Anyway, the 2 level car park around the back had previously been approved, so maybe a new owner will stick with that plan.
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Bishop84

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Re: General Developments

PostWed Mar 14, 2018 1:39 pm

Didn't VoG planning refuse panning permission for the last proposal to repair and reopen the hotel? Something to do with a stair and lift tower on the side of the listed building?

If nothing is done soon I think the building will be lost due to its condition.
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RandomComment

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Re: General Developments

PostWed Mar 14, 2018 1:53 pm

£2 million might not be that expensive, even given the state of repair.

The building is circa 16,000 square feet, so it works out at around £125 per square foot. Cardiff residential property averages about £200 per square foot. So what would be a prime location (waterside Penarth), for commercial space, would probably have a value considerably north of that. Could easily be £400 a square foot I imagine?
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Mr Blue Sky

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Re: General Developments

PostWed Mar 14, 2018 2:44 pm

RandomComment wrote:£2 million might not be that expensive, even given the state of repair.

The building is circa 16,000 square feet, so it works out at around £125 per square foot. Cardiff residential property averages about £200 per square foot. So what would be a prime location (waterside Penarth), for commercial space, would probably have a value considerably north of that. Could easily be £400 a square foot I imagine?


According to the EJHales listing each floor is 1558 sq feet and there are three floors, making a total area of 4674 sq feet. About twice the size of your average Penarth Edwardian semi or modern detached. This does seem smaller than I’d imagined; where do you get your 16,000 sq feet figure from?

Premium homes in Penarth heights and the Marina are on sale for £250 to £350 per square foot eg

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for ... 09757.html

And this recent sale

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices ... ry=england

Assuming your figure is correct, we multiply 16000 by the top-end figure of £350 per square foot and the sale price (if this were flats) of £5.6 million. Given that the quote for redeveloping this as an hotel was quoted as being £7 million, and that any developer would be looking for at least a 10% net profit, then the figures don’t stack up.

However, Looking at it another way, redeveloping this as high-end apartments would cost at most £1500 per square metre. It is 1500 square metres so that gives a cost of £2.25million to redevelop as apartments. Add in the purchase price and once redeveloped there could be some money to be made here - and a building saved.
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