Greenfield Developments

there is only one autarky in the world at that is North Korea. If you can't dream of living in high rise blocks with leadership of cult personality where you can never leave your borders what can you dream of?

Cambo, you also forgot that Wales has 25% of its workforce in the public sector whereas the UK has 20%. Of we were to become independent but match the UK in terms of 20% public sector workforce, we would lose around 80k public sector jobs increasing unemployment to near 15%.

Mr Blue Sky clearly hasn't thought things through and has porridge for a brain

But tarring all Plaid members with the same brush would be akin to tarring all Conservatives as poor hating, expenses cheating white Eton boys.

My personal view in independence is we're the poorest country in the EU and have been for quite some time. Westminster doesn't care about us. Not enough swing seats to help the Torries and too many safe seats for Labour so they don't see Welsh issues as important. We still don't know who is going to be funding the electrification of the Valleys lines yet Gideon tries to.please the north of England with HS3. Things don't look like they could get much worse under independence for Wales.

They could get £8 billion worse. Have you not read what I wrote? Even if you think in the "long run", Wales could grow itself out of the mess, that £8 billion hit would be very very very very VERY big. It would require a fiscal consolidation around twice as big as the 9 yr repair job being attempted (and only half way through) to repair the UK's finances after the "Great Recession".

The fiscal transfers that operate within the Union seem to be the blind spot of the nationalists. There is a coherent case to be made - that these transfers are a bad thing, making us "dependent" and that we'd have more pride and our grandkids better lives if we went cold turkey. But you cannot pretend that it wouldn't be a huge drop in living standards on independence - and that there would be risks of a further downward spiral rather than a journey to the sunny uplands of wealthy self-reliance.

But immediate independence isn't a Plaid goal. Long term yes but of course if Wales were independent tomorrow we'd be up shit creek nobody is denying that. For independce to be viable we need a strong economy but the Westminster parties seem to be a bit reluctant in helping Wales succeed properly.

The fiscal transfers that operate within the Union seem to be the blind spot of the nationalists. There is a coherent case to be made - that these transfers are a bad thing, making us "dependent" and that we'd have more pride and our grandkids better lives if we went cold turkey. But you cannot pretend that it wouldn't be a huge drop in living standards on independence - and that there would be risks of a further downward spiral rather than a journey to the sunny uplands of wealthy self-reliance.

I'm not a nationalist but fiscal transfers exist not only within the UK but also the EU. Judging by the record of eastern & central Europe over the last twenty years EU fiscal transfers to national governments who are full EU members seem to be far more effective than Westminster handouts to a hobbled and realitvely powerless Welsh Government.

It seems EU fiscal transfers have made countries prosper - while the UK fiscal transfers to Wales have kept us poor.

The fiscal transfers that operate within the Union seem to be the blind spot of the nationalists. There is a coherent case to be made - that these transfers are a bad thing, making us "dependent" and that we'd have more pride and our grandkids better lives if we went cold turkey. But you cannot pretend that it wouldn't be a huge drop in living standards on independence - and that there would be risks of a further downward spiral rather than a journey to the sunny uplands of wealthy self-reliance.

I'm not a nationalist but fiscal transfers exist not only within the UK but also the EU. Judging by the record of eastern & central Europe over the last twenty years EU fiscal transfers to national governments who are full EU members seem to be far more effective than Westminster handouts to a hobbled and realitvely powerless Welsh Government.

It seems EU fiscal transfers have made countries prosper - while the UK fiscal transfers to Wales have kept us poor.

objective 1 funding???? would you say that has been a resounding success or not? that is EU money coming into the UK being spent in a part of the UK and it has achieved very little. Maybe just maybe the majority of Welsh landscape isn't really suited for 21st century industry

Such as what exactly?

Such as what exactly?

in what context are you asking that question?

In the not suited for 21st century industry way.

In the not suited for 21st century industry way.

take a drive up the A470, its all hills and single roads, it is hardly conducive to transport and logistics. other than the m4 corridor and the A55, Wales really doesn't have the topography that is required.