Fri May 01, 2015 5:06 pm
Mr Blue Sky, I really must say your threatening and abusive manner is getting everyone down.
As Jantra says you clearly have strong views on this. But they are views that most people on here happen to disagree with. As I said, it makes sense to look at the assumptions that would need hold for your views to make sense. You quietly dodged that one, so perhaps I should repeat.
1) That a bus station on Marland House that is able to handle National Express and a good number of local services does not form an "integrated hub" with the station.
On this distance point, I think its nonsensical. Its basically the same distance as the existing bus station, just moved slighlty to the east. Its a better location - still close by, but not in the way. It opens up developable land, clears desire lines for pedestrians, and allows event day operation.
On the level of service point, there is more scope for disagreement I admit. What most of us are saying is that patterns of usage show that the extra time (which means less frequent services, and less attractive services) for everything to go via the bus station (rather than just a sub-set of routes to) means that it actually isn't that great an idea to have a big bus station where everything goes through. Instead, it makes sense for key local routes to go through a (smaller) station, with other routes stopping very close by on Westgate St, Wood St, lower St Mary's street etc. When combined with the idea of mini-interchanges, that allows people to transfer between buses if needs be (which is often the case in London in fact, where theres nothing like a central bus station or 'central tube station').
Now if you ask Joe Public whether there should be a central station where all buses stop, I don't doubt a majority will say "yes". At first glance that sounds reasonable and sensible. When people get to hear the pros and cons of different options, you'd get a different answer. When they know that increases journey times and means fewer services, or means one cannot get a regenerated Central Square, for instance.
And, again its important to look at how people actually use buses in Cardiff. Our own anecdotal experience is that the bus station isn't that important to us or our acquaintances as bus users. The more formal analysis undertaken by the council also found this - it is what justifed changes in strategy. So we're in a situation a bit like what happens when you ask whether people want a Tesco Express? "Oh no, I want local shops"... and then they shop at Tesco Express. I tend to think how people behave rather than what they say is a better guide to how they really feel. Same with the buses and bus station.
2) The bus station won't get built so we should obstruct any development nearby to force the council's hand.
As I said, agree there is a risk the bus station doesn't happen. But its a risk I'm willing to take for a number of reasons.
For a start, I think thats an abuse of the planning system. The planning system is there to determine each application on its merit - as part of a masterplan if necessary - not to be used as a commitment device for the council.
Second, I think there is such political capital invested in this now, its hard to backtrack completely.
Third, I think the issue of financing it is something for the council, not for the developer of a private development.
Fouth, I think there is a strong risk of the whole central square rejuvination collapsing if we have to wait another 3-4 years before starting it if we cannot progress until a bus station is built.
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Now we can have a sensible discussion about which points specifically you object to in my analysis. We can disagree. But its civilised and both of us learn something.
Or we can be rude and threatening, which seems to be your style. These threats about "quoting you in articles". What game is it you are trying to play? To shut people up who disagree with you? Its a forum.. don't take it so seriously! We're free to disagree with you as you are with us.
Furthermore you know full well what I meant when I said this was "the counci's problem". It was abundently clear I meant the funding of this is the council's responsibility as it is funding that the council would need to find irrespective of this particularly development (unless you believe the existing station is fit for purpose); and in any case the development wouldn't be viable if such a large financial obligation were placed on it. You know it was not a more general comment about the groups who would benefit/lose from any specific proposal on bus provision.
I don't want to get into any messy personal arguments about this. If you want to find someone to mud sling with, please find someone else.
) bus station and put something there far more fitting of our standing, hopes and aspirations. I for one am fully supportive of the council for making this decision and Carl Sargeant for dismissing the Jeremiad of the naysayers and BANANAs at the civic society.