Metro

Yes, the EU will save the South Wales Metro!

This is the same EU that has caused a 5 year 50mph restriction on the Brynglass tunnels as its classified as a trans European strategic route. If they do any work on it, it must come up to modern tunnel standard. Trouble is, this will cost a fortune, where are the EU when it comes to providing this money. No Where. But they will fine the WAG if they lift the temporary restrictions.

This is why these tunnels will be closed every night on and off until 2018. Great for economic development in Wales, at least they did no coincide it with the Severn Tunnel closures, oh hang on

First, can you post the FOI answer? It should be online.

More generally, I don't think a 50MPH speed restriction for a very short stretch of the M4 will be an economic problem - the more general congestion, and the problems caused by accidents may be more so.

The upgrading of the tunnel to meet the more stringent safety standards of the 2004 Tunnels Directive (implemented 2014) is probably a good think. The current 1960s-standard tunnel could become a death trap if there was a serious accident and fire in the tunnel. I've tried to find the voting record for this Directive but I imagine the UK ended up voting for it. We have voted for 95% of Directives, and the UK is a particular stickler for health and safety as we know.

And on funding, Wales gets back far more in funding than it pays into the EU budget (along with NI and Cornwall, thats quite unusual in the UK context actually). The net receipts from the EU budget would pay for this work many many times over!

Yes, the EU will save the South Wales Metro!

This is the same EU that has caused a 5 year 50mph restriction on the Brynglass tunnels as its classified as a trans European strategic route. If they do any work on it, it must come up to modern tunnel standard. Trouble is, this will cost a fortune, where are the EU when it comes to providing this money. No Where. But they will fine the WAG if they lift the temporary restrictions.

This is why these tunnels will be closed every night on and off until 2018. Great for economic development in Wales, at least they did no coincide it with the Severn Tunnel closures, oh hang on

First, can you post the FOI answer? It should be online.

More generally, I don't think a 50MPH speed restriction for a very short stretch of the M4 will be an economic problem - the more general congestion, and the problems caused by accidents may be more so.

The upgrading of the tunnel to meet the more stringent safety standards of the 2004 Tunnels Directive (implemented 2014) is probably a good think. The current 1960s-standard tunnel could become a death trap if there was a serious accident and fire in the tunnel. I've tried to find the voting record for this Directive but I imagine the UK ended up voting for it. We have voted for 95% of Directives, and the UK is a particular stickler for health and safety as we know.

And on funding, Wales gets back far more in funding than it pays into the EU budget (along with NI and Cornwall, thats quite unusual in the UK context actually). The net receipts from the EU budget would pay for this work many many times over!

And speed limits of 50 on motorways near cities really aren't that unusual...here and abroad

You obviously don't drive!!

The "temporary" 50mph speed restriction which has been on the west bound bore 24/7 since July 2011
I put in a FOI to ask why about 3 years ago?

You said the EU was responsible for the 50mph speed limit, I would like to see documents proving this as to whether I drive or not, that's irrelevant.

You said the EU was responsible for the 50mph speed limit, I would like to see documents proving this as to whether I drive or not, that's irrelevant.

A bit touchy aren't we??

Ok here is the proof:

From TravelWales QA
http://www.traffic-wales.com/news/m4-ju ... wered.aspx

Q: Why is there a section of the west bound M4 variable speed limit section that never varies?

A: On the Westbound Carriageway, following the Brynglas Tunnel Fire in 2011, reduced lighting has been in operation which requires the permanent display of a 50MPH speed limit being applied on the approach and travel through the tunnel. Welsh Government are seeking to provide a more permanent solution through provision of new lighting in the westbound bore of the tunnel. Such a solution will have a significant impact on the road network during works to install these and must therefore be carefully scoped and planned prior to any works taking place.

FOI key statement:
Eich cyf / Your ref: ATISN 6307
Ein cyf / Our ref: Foi
1 August 2012
This is the information we have regarding the Brynglas Tunnels work :-
A contract has not yet been let for the replacement of the lighting within the
westbound bore of the M4 Brynglas tunnels. To avoid added disruption and abortive
works, the replacement of the lighting is being considered alongside a potential
scheme of improvements to the tunnel. This work would address other works
resulting from the fire, replacing equipment that is at or is approaching the end of
design life as well as ensuring all systems meet current legislative and design
standard requirements. We must also consider that when significant works such as
replacement of the lighting are undertaken, it is a requirement to modify the
remaining tunnel systems to satisfy current legislative and design standards.
The works, designs, programme and subsequent costs are currently being compiled
into a business case. The Welsh Government will then prioritise accordingly and
select the most suitable approach, balancing capital costs versus the required tunnel
access times (disruption) of the various options.
The temporary speed restriction is continually being reviewed to ensure it is
still a suitable mitigation measure to the non-standard lighting arrangement
and that it doesn't cause undue congestion or restrictions on the network.

WAG Document M4 Corridor around Newport
http://m4newport.com/assets/issue-m4-dr ... cument.pdf

"Major maintenance works to the M4 will be required within the next 5-10 years, which could cause significant disruption. Significant maintenance works (that may be over a long period of time) are needed at the Brynglas Tunnels in order to satisfy an EU Directive7 and meet current safety standards by 2014;"

EU Tunnel Directive on Strategic Routes:
The current tunnels fail on a raft of issues such as:

2.8. Lighting
2.8.1. Normal lighting shall be provided so as to ensure appropriate visibility day and night for drivers in the entrance
zone as well as in the interior of the tunnel.

Full EU 2004 Tunnel Directive.

DIRECTIVE 2004/54/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 29 April 2004
on minimum safety requirements for tunnels in the trans-European road network.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 076:EN:PDF

By having a 50mph temporary limit, it allowed time to come up with plan and meant since it was classified as "ongoing work", the EU directive was not breached.


Does this satisfy you now???

Yes, the EU will save the South Wales Metro!

It's not a question of the EU 'saving' the Metro Zach. The Welsh Government intends to use EU funds as the main funding stream for the plan. If those funds are unavailable another funding stream would have to be found or the plans would have to be altered or abandoned.

That's a simple matter of facts - although facts don't seem to matter much to the Brexit brigade.

You said the EU was responsible for the 50mph speed limit, I would like to see documents proving this as to whether I drive or not, that's irrelevant.

A bit touchy aren't we??

Ok here is the proof:

From TravelWales QA
http://www.traffic-wales.com/news/m4-ju ... wered.aspx

Q: Why is there a section of the west bound M4 variable speed limit section that never varies?

A: On the Westbound Carriageway, following the Brynglas Tunnel Fire in 2011, reduced lighting has been in operation which requires the permanent display of a 50MPH speed limit being applied on the approach and travel through the tunnel. Welsh Government are seeking to provide a more permanent solution through provision of new lighting in the westbound bore of the tunnel. Such a solution will have a significant impact on the road network during works to install these and must therefore be carefully scoped and planned prior to any works taking place.

FOI key statement:
Eich cyf / Your ref: ATISN 6307
Ein cyf / Our ref: Foi
1 August 2012
This is the information we have regarding the Brynglas Tunnels work :-
A contract has not yet been let for the replacement of the lighting within the
westbound bore of the M4 Brynglas tunnels. To avoid added disruption and abortive
works, the replacement of the lighting is being considered alongside a potential
scheme of improvements to the tunnel. This work would address other works
resulting from the fire, replacing equipment that is at or is approaching the end of
design life as well as ensuring all systems meet current legislative and design
standard requirements. We must also consider that when significant works such as
replacement of the lighting are undertaken, it is a requirement to modify the
remaining tunnel systems to satisfy current legislative and design standards.
The works, designs, programme and subsequent costs are currently being compiled
into a business case. The Welsh Government will then prioritise accordingly and
select the most suitable approach, balancing capital costs versus the required tunnel
access times (disruption) of the various options.
The temporary speed restriction is continually being reviewed to ensure it is
still a suitable mitigation measure to the non-standard lighting arrangement
and that it doesn't cause undue congestion or restrictions on the network.

WAG Document M4 Corridor around Newport
http://m4newport.com/assets/issue-m4-dr ... cument.pdf

"Major maintenance works to the M4 will be required within the next 5-10 years, which could cause significant disruption. Significant maintenance works (that may be over a long period of time) are needed at the Brynglas Tunnels in order to satisfy an EU Directive7 and meet current safety standards by 2014;"

EU Tunnel Directive on Strategic Routes:
The current tunnels fail on a raft of issues such as:

2.8. Lighting
2.8.1. Normal lighting shall be provided so as to ensure appropriate visibility day and night for drivers in the entrance
zone as well as in the interior of the tunnel.

Full EU 2004 Tunnel Directive.

DIRECTIVE 2004/54/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL
of 29 April 2004
on minimum safety requirements for tunnels in the trans-European road network.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 076:EN:PDF

By having a 50mph temporary limit, it allowed time to come up with plan and meant since it was classified as "ongoing work", the EU directive was not breached.


Does this satisfy you now???

I thank you for taking the time to post this, but I see no evidence of the EU having a say on the speed limit. The last paragraph strongly suggests that the speed limit is in force to manage the work being carried out.

speed limit is in force to manage the work being carried out.

Really? For the last 5 years.

although facts don't seem to matter much to the Brexit brigade.

"Brexit Brigade", a bit of sour grapes old boy!

Not like the sensible Remain side, like Carwyn Jones say he will negotiate with the EU regardless of which ever way the UK votes.
The man is barking made.

Just to bring back an old debate. New stations! I'd like to see one in Roath around Montermer Rd and one in Mynachdy by Bryn-y-Deryn School. I also think Cathays station would benefit from being a good 600 yards north. The current station is practically in town. I know people have talked about a station at Talybont before but I'm not sure it would add that much. It might be within half a mile of the Heath though you've got to cross Gabalfa.

I agree that some of these locations are good. But the key is new rolling stock that will have the ability to accelerate faster after leaving stations.