General Developments

I must say, I find the idea of this being the site of a hotel rather odd. Granted it is next to the river, and there are plans for the Dumballs Road area. But at the moment site isn't anything other than industrial: theres the big Brains Brewery site next door, and the various units across the road (notably the big Yellow Storage building). And as far as I'm aware, the Dumballs Road plans don't actually extend to this area. So even when (if?) that development gets underway, this site is likely to be a bit out on a limb. I just don't see there being enough demand for office and/or residential space in the city to warrant redeveloping this area wholesale. About the only thing that could do it would be the siting of the convention centre at Callaghan Square South Side or the Brains Brewery. Is that what they are betting on?

I've said elsewhere that I think Central Sq is being over-developed. I would like to have seen more development to the south of the station. Of course that would have created disruption for Brains and BMW but will they stay there forever? I once thought that site would have been good for the BBC, the sort of riverside centre that they have in Glasgow. Instead they are slap bang in the middle of a supposed 'enterprise' zone. Any hope that the Welsh government might move people from Cathays Park down that way any more? Does proximity to the Senedd actually matter?

A move from Cathays Park is unlikely to make financial sense for the WG unfortunately. The highly restrictive covenants on the Civic Centre mean it can be used for civil or educational purposes only. That means Cardiff University is basically the only possible purchasor (I don't see Cardiff Met or South Wales opening additional Cardiff campuses here). Given the costs that would be invovled in converting the Crown Buildings there's a question of whether the Uni would pay anything at all. So why would the WG move and buy/rent a building when the opportunity cost of their existing one is probably close to zero? I don't see operational efficiencies - energy, reduced transport to/from the Bay - as being enough.

I know what you mean about Central Square - it could have been a much bigger square, with fountains, a grassy area etc. However, development viability/profitability can make it hard to deliver such spaces. Rightacres would be looking to maximise their return on their investment and Cardiff Council (who I think sssembled the land) would also have an eye to the size of any returns/subsidy involved (as well as broader aims like regeneration, connectivity, liveability etc). If its a choice between £X million less profit / more subsidy. And I think the square itself will still be a reasonable size: something like 50-70m by 80m. The station extention might eventually eat upto perhaps 20m of the 50-70m dimension. So big enough to host small markets, events related to the BBC etc.

And while we might want to demolish and move existing occupiers at the stroke of the pen, money talks, whether public or private. If there is a ready plot right outside the station, would you really want to wait longer and pay more to move a brewery that will try to use its bargaining power to jack up the price?

I must say, I find the idea of this being the site of a hotel rather odd. Granted it is next to the river, and there are plans for the Dumballs Road area. But at the moment site isn't anything other than industrial: theres the big Brains Brewery site next door, and the various units across the road (notably the big Yellow Storage building). And as far as I'm aware, the Dumballs Road plans don't actually extend to this area. So even when (if?) that development gets underway, this site is likely to be a bit out on a limb. I just don't see there being enough demand for office and/or residential space in the city to warrant redeveloping this area wholesale. About the only thing that could do it would be the siting of the convention centre at Callaghan Square South Side or the Brains Brewery. Is that what they are betting on?

Well this could be a great location! but also could be as you say a bit out on a limb - but not that far out. Isn't there pretty much a belief that Brains will move from this location? if it's to be for a convention centre then 'bingo' for the potential of a hotel. But regardless, the Brains land would probably be used for something that would bring this potential hotel less 'out on a limb'. Also we know that Dumballs Road area will be transformed eventually! also a likelihood of development at the south entrance to the station. Also some Quarter or other was mentioned for the trade st area . So in 5-10 years Indeed this could end up as a great location - also by the riverside - hopefully making more of that - maybe they could have their very own water taxi stop?

Whilst we are in this neck of the woods I'm wondering if and when the Track 2000 building will be sold and area developed - I'm thinking mid rise up'ish' market apartments - over looking the splendid Cardiff Moxy!!

What's the latest with the Ministry of Justice? Presumably they would be acceptable for Cathays Park? Or perhaps they might fancy Callaghan Sq South themselves? Weren't there even rumours of Cardiff Council wanting a new home. Atlantic Wharf feels much more than 30 years old.

Cardiff council wanted to move out from its current HQ but I think politics got in its way - it just looks profligate, even if you can get a better building that is cheaper to run and makes more efficient use of space. I think when the move was suggested before it was to use the existing site as a convention centre / arena, but that idea seems to have gone very quiet. I am also not sure that was ever the best location for it, especially given the convoluted train route from Central.

I guess I'm just a bit downbeat now on Brains moving. Theres quite a lot of land on Callaghan southside, Capital Quarter and Central Square for offices, hotel etc. These can take well over a million square feet of development. We've then got Rapport, another 300k of space. There is the car park south of the station - perhaps another 300k. All that land is already owned by developers, and is to all intents and purposes "development ready".

The only way I see Brains going is if we get a convention centre and use that as its site. That was not the preferred plan, and I think the idea may have bit the dust anyway.

Not trying to be downbeat - just realistic.

What's the latest with the Ministry of Justice? Presumably they would be acceptable for Cathays Park? Or perhaps they might fancy Callaghan Sq South themselves? Weren't there even rumours of Cardiff Council wanting a new home. Atlantic Wharf feels much more than 30 years old.

Cathays Park is also a huuugge building. About 400,000 square feet. I think the MoJ itself is looking for more like 70,000 square feet. And even the new "super hub" (on top of HMRC) is 187,000 square feet so only half the building. It may also be too far from major public transport provision to be attractive.

According to the last official valuation (in 2007), the building is worth £22.5 million: I doubt it would have increased much if anything since then. That equates to a capital value of about £56 per square foot, or a rental value given the Welsh Govts covenant of about £3 per square foot. I doubt there is anywhere in the UK, maybe the world, they could get new office space at that price, let alone Cardiff!

Planning app has gone in for an overhaul of east gate house
http://planning.cardiff.gov.uk/online-a ... APR_117364

Don't like it. Think expanses of dark grey render will look cheap and oppressive (this is a slab of a building). Shame they couldn't tidy up the brickwork - I'm quite a fan of brick towers! (Like some of those put up to the north of Kings Cross.)

I don't really dislike Eastgate House but I'm obviously in the minority.

Don't like it. Think expanses of dark grey render will look cheap and oppressive (this is a slab of a building). Shame they couldn't tidy up the brickwork - I'm quite a fan of brick towers! (Like some of those put up to the north of Kings Cross.)

I quite like it, it beats white render,
I like those towers north of kings cross, I just wonder how long it will be before they start to look old