It is currently Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:29 pm


General Developments

if it's about Cardiff.. Sport, Entertainment, Transportation, Business, Development Projects, Leisure, Eating, Drinking, Nightlife, Shopping, Train Spotting! etc.. then we want it here!
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

Mr Blue Sky

  • Posts: 404
  • Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:55 pm

Re: General Developments

PostWed Jul 19, 2017 1:29 pm

Peiriannydd wrote:Are those hotels located so close to Victoria's Parliament buildings in Melbourne? Wow! I didn't realise that Melbourne's economy had been so bad since the locals took over! My, my...

Seriously, some peope need to get out more. If you don't like the fact that a cheap and ugly hotel is being built next to a cheap and ugly parliament building, then you can blame our forefathers for that. Maybe if the case for Home Rule had been pushed a little harder around the turn of the 20th century then maybe we'd have a Parliament building like Stormont or something grander. Look carefully at the second image, which indicates a old version for the masterplanning of our Civil Centre. You can see "Houses of Parliament" marked on the roof on either side of the portico, on the building just about the gardens.

Perhaps that's being too harsh. Maybe we should just blame the complete and utter morons who commissioned that hideous building (that's already dated) and the idiots who did the masterplanning for the bay, which I understand started before devolution.


I think that the Senedd is way better, architecturally, than the proposed hotel. The masterplanning for the bay does leave a lot to be desired but the fact is that this prime plot should have been reserved for something better than a Premier Inn.

As Jantra says, it does reflect the moribund state of the Welsh economy and the multiple failures of devolution. However, the Cardiff economy is doing reasonably well. If this hotel is built using top notch materials then there may be some redemption. Unfortunately I believe that this is unlikely to transpire.

What we will probably be left with is a turd stinking out the whole of the Bay.

Jantra

Re: General Developments

PostWed Jul 19, 2017 1:42 pm

with all due respect I doubt anyone would be complaining if we were getting this, but we are not. we are getting something that should be at Cardiff Gate.

NB i get out quite a bit thanks. I also appreciate the Welsh economy is on its arse.
Offline

Peiriannydd

  • Posts: 572
  • Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:12 pm

Re: General Developments

PostWed Jul 19, 2017 1:58 pm

I agree, the Senedd is better than the proposed hotel, but not by much.

The development as a whole is called Cardiff Waterside, which connects onto the back on the proposed Roath Basin. If I've got my bearings correct then the attached CGI was an indication of what was originally proposed for this area, which is quite respectable and I think it would add a lot to creating a second CBD in Cardiff.

It would be easy to blame the state of the Welsh economy for this development. But that doesn't really stack up when you look at the levels of investment for office schemes at Central Square, Capital Quarter and the propsed Central Square.

The reality is, if I was a developer, why would I want to invest a large sum of money building an office in an area which has poor links to the city centre, nevermind about the outside world? Especially, when all of the action of going on around the railway main line and extending down Dumballs Road. That you have to blame on the master planning of the whole Bay area and the lost opportunities to have built in better transport links and clearly defined development areas.

The other point I'd make, is if you going to put the new seat of government down into a new development, then why not build all the supporting infrastructure for it in the first place? Why does the government have offices in the Civic Centre? If you're going to make the break from the existing Civic Centre then why not build a New Civic Centre for Wales and leave the old one for Cardiff? Surely, the Bay redevelopment should have planned for that?

One also has to question the role of the Welsh Government in managing such developments. Callaghan Square is a monument to their failure. Had bad does it look for a capital city to have a flagship development left unfinnished, right in the heart of the city? Why have developers gone down the route of knocking down the bus station to get land to develope on, when there are massive vacant plots on the other side of the station that have been in the Welsh Governments possession for years?

Why are these questions not being asked by our useless media?
Attachments
5 Pierhead St.jpg
5 Pierhead St.jpg (180.88 KiB) Viewed 5741 times
Offline

Peiriannydd

  • Posts: 572
  • Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:12 pm

Re: General Developments

PostWed Jul 19, 2017 2:01 pm

Jantra wrote:with all due respect I doubt anyone would be complaining if we were getting this, but we are not. we are getting something that should be at Cardiff Gate.

NB i get out quite a bit thanks. I also appreciate the Welsh economy is on its arse.


Yes, I was being a little bit facetious. I do appologise.

The point is, I don't mind that a hotel is going there, as many other parliament buildings have hotels that are close by. But if a hotel had been built so close to a parliament building say 100 years ago then it would have looked something like that. Most modern developments are nowhere near that quality and there's not the same sense of civic pride either.

Jantra

Re: General Developments

PostWed Jul 19, 2017 2:29 pm

if we were getting that office build across from the Senedd then I don't think we'd have many complaints. i also agree that we should have had the civil service move down the Bay, as i am sure having the Welsh office staff based there would be a huge catalyst for regeneration.

Callaghan Square is best left unspoken. We have had many promises of reconfiguration and development all to come to nought. If John Street gets built then it may be a catalyst for something further, but at the moment it really is a case of city meets centre, and rather abruptly
Offline

RandomComment

  • Posts: 874
  • Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:50 pm

Re: General Developments

PostWed Jul 19, 2017 4:55 pm

Jantra wrote:if we were getting that office build across from the Senedd then I don't think we'd have many complaints. i also agree that we should have had the civil service move down the Bay, as i am sure having the Welsh office staff based there would be a huge catalyst for regeneration.


I really don't think there's any chance of the civil service moving from Crown Buildings to a new build in the Bay. They won't be able to sell the existing building / land for much money given its configuration and its location. Indeed they might face a net cost of decomissioning the building. They would then have the expense of purchasing and/or renting a new build capable of housing several thousand staff.

About the only thing that could make it worthwhile would be if the current running costs of the Crown Buildings are very high (energy-inefficient and the cost of free transport between them and the Bay). Even then the politics of spending millions a year on rent when you had a building already there, would be very very bad...
Offline

Peiriannydd

  • Posts: 572
  • Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:12 pm

Re: General Developments

PostWed Jul 19, 2017 9:26 pm

I think Cardiff University would be interested in those buildings but I don't know what they'd be prepared to pay for them.
Offline

Mr Blue Sky

  • Posts: 404
  • Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:55 pm

Re: General Developments

PostWed Jul 19, 2017 10:02 pm

If there was any prospect, no matter how distant, that Wales would become an independent, sovereign state then I think that this parcel of land would be hallowed; saved for the apparatus of an autonomous nation.

Unfortunately (imho) this is not going to happen and the "premierinnification" of this most prime of prime spots in our capital is emblematic of the realpolitik pervading the concept of Welsh nationalism: we will take what we are given and bloody well like it.
Offline

Peiriannydd

  • Posts: 572
  • Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:12 pm

Re: General Developments

PostThu Jul 20, 2017 12:17 am

Mr Blue Sky wrote:If there was any prospect, no matter how distant, that Wales would become an independent, sovereign state then I think that this parcel of land would be hallowed; saved for the apparatus of an autonomous nation.

Unfortunately (imho) this is not going to happen and the "premierinnification" of this most prime of prime spots in our capital is emblematic of the realpolitik pervading the concept of Welsh nationalism: we will take what we are given and bloody well like it.


If Wales did become independent and required more space for its government buildings then I'm sure an alternative location could be found where a new Senedd could be erected. Plenty of countries have moved/rebuilt their parliament buildings before, including the UK, Australia and New Zealand. The latter two have even moved their capital cities!
Offline

Frank

  • Posts: 333
  • Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:54 pm

Re: General Developments

PostThu Jul 20, 2017 10:51 am

What about an office swap with Cardiff Council? WAG get Atlantic Wharf and the council can go back to the civic centre. Both buildings are probably as bad as each other.
PreviousNext

Return to Cardiff Wales Map forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests