New tower of glass opposit the golden cross

Let's not get bogged down in this . Whatever future policies in Bristol , there has been one to restrict the height of buildings; even more so in Edinburgh. I think that's enlightened. And surprise, surprise, both cities are sophisticated, attractive and richore so in Edinburgh. I think that's enlightened. And surprise, surprise, both cities are sophisticated, attractive and rich. Cardiff needs to think this tall building thing through in more subtlety and depth, rather than adopt the banal attitude that tall is good. We could do something good here.

Total nonsense. On every single economic measure Cardiff and Bristol are roughly equal. If you are too lazy to look things up, Bristol is curently the UK's eighth city in terms of GVA. Cardiff is tenth. Bristol may be more 'sophisticated' and 'attractive' in your opinion, others would disagree. On any objective measure though, it's not a 'richor' (sic)' city than Cardiff. You really need to stop making stuff up.

We're not getting bogged down - we're just calling you out when you present your opinions as facts. You were wrong about tall buildings in Bristol. Can you at least admit that? You are now wrong about the comparative wealth of the two cities.

Let's not get bogged down in this . Whatever future policies in Bristol , there has been one to restrict the height of buildings; even more so in Edinburgh. I think that's enlightened. And surprise, surprise, both cities are sophisticated, attractive and richore so in Edinburgh. I think that's enlightened. And surprise, surprise, both cities are sophisticated, attractive and rich. Cardiff needs to think this tall building thing through in more subtlety and depth, rather than adopt the banal attitude that tall is good. We could do something good here.

Total nonsense. On every single economic measure Cardiff and Bristol are roughly equal. If you are too lazy to look things up, Bristol is curently the UK's eighth city in terms of GVA. Cardiff is tenth. Bristol may be more sophisticated and attractive in your opinion but it's not a 'richor' (sic)' city than Cardiff. You really need to stop making stuff up.

We're not getting bogged down - we're just calling you out when you present opinion as fact. You were wrong about tall buildings and you are wrong about the comparative wealth of the two cities.

and about this forum being dull!!! had to get that one in - bl***y cheek!

For me, a good city must be tall to an extent. Having no tall buildings means it doesn't give me that metropolitan feeling, where you're not blown away by the scale of everything.

I've been to Edinburgh a few times. And yes, who in their right minds wouldn't say that the architecture is stunning? It's gorgeous. However, looking at the city from a distance, you cant see anything! You don't get that wow factor as you come into the city looking at its towers. Its beautiful, but just not exciting for me. It doesn't feel like a modern metropolitan area, even though its bigger than Cardiff.

Just feels like you're stuck in a Market town. A very pretty market town at that.

I didn’t suggest that fake Victorian streets were the only alternative. You spent so long bashing Cardiff’s strategy without actually offering up any alternatives at all. You also can’t just blame the forum if your views aren’t shared by the majority. People are countering your points. Is that not “considered debate”? If this forum is so dull to you, you really don’t have to be here.

People aren't countering his points at all. They are simply saying he is wrong. Arguments without evidence are dismissed equally without evidence.

URBANO has made several valid points. Bristol and Edinburgh are wealthier cities. Cardiff relies on a high public sector employment subsidy. Strip that away and we aren't anywhere near as wealthy.

Low rise cities:
Bath, Bristol, Edinburgh, Oxford, cambridge

If you have ever been to Berlin you will see it has its high rise here and there but generally the city centre is 6 to 7 storeys.

Let's not get bogged down in this . Whatever future policies in Bristol , there has been one to restrict the height of buildings; even more so in Edinburgh. I think that's enlightened. And surprise, surprise, both cities are sophisticated, attractive and richore so in Edinburgh. I think that's enlightened. And surprise, surprise, both cities are sophisticated, attractive and rich. Cardiff needs to think this tall building thing through in more subtlety and depth, rather than adopt the banal attitude that tall is good. We could do something good here.

Total nonsense. On every single economic measure Cardiff and Bristol are roughly equal. If you are too lazy to look things up, Bristol is curently the UK's eighth city in terms of GVA. Cardiff is tenth. Bristol may be more 'sophisticated' and 'attractive' in your opinion, others would disagree. On any objective measure though, it's not a 'richor' (sic)' city than Cardiff. You really need to stop making stuff up.

We're not getting bogged down - we're just calling you out when you present your opinions as facts. You were wrong about tall buildings in Bristol. Can you at least admit that? You are now wrong about the comparative wealth of the two cities.

So Bristol is ahead of Cardiff in terms of GVA. Isn't that agreeing with URBANO's point?

For me, a good city must be tall to an extent. Having no tall buildings means it doesn't give me that metropolitan feeling, where you're not blown away by the scale of everything.

I've been to Edinburgh a few times. And yes, who in their right minds wouldn't say that the architecture is stunning? It's gorgeous. However, looking at the city from a distance, you cant see anything! You don't get that wow factor as you come into the city looking at its towers. Its beautiful, but just not exciting for me. It doesn't feel like a modern metropolitan area, even though its bigger than Cardiff.

Just feels like you're stuck in a Market town. A very pretty market town at that.

Looking at Edinburgh from a distance you see Arthur's seat and the castle. BTW this market town is a world heritage site.

Go to Berlin for a low rise metropole. They have ice trains, the ubahn and sbahn. They have several airports and a few million people living there. You don't always need tall to be cosmopolitan

Wait there... who cares

Bristol is Bristol and Cardiff is Cardiff.

I prefer Cardiff and like the look of the high rise build up.. to me it says we are a City on the up.

Edinburgh is a completely different city and that is also fine.
We need different types of cities.

Cardiff has chosen its path and needs to go with it, by building bigger and better. Maybe more City Centre living that don't always include students.

City Centre living also boosts and keeps alive City Centre trade.

So Bristol can do what they want and Cardiff can do its thing.

I think it comes down tot he age of a city, the settlement of Cardiff might be old but the city is very new compared to Bristol and Edinburgh. Bristol is coping with massive damage done during the war and the subsequent reconstruction, without that change i would be sure it would be mostly low rise like Edinburgh, Cardiff didnt have this issue or a particularly uniform and extensive streetscape, you can see how quickly the city center falls into terraced shops and housing in aerial pictures from before the war. The taller modern buildings signify to me that Cardiff is a modern thriving city that embraces its past but doesnt cling to it and is looking to the future. You could imagine whole scale reconstruction going on in Bristol like Dresden/Potsdam/Warsaw etc, i couldn't imagine this in Cardiff.

Bristol is a hybrid to me of an old beautiful city on one side and ugly post war the other, Cardiff for me is a modern city with a compact, well preserved historical core. Both cities have their merit but i chose Cardiff to live in because i prefer it,

Thank you, Jantra. The voice of reason and reasonableness as usual

"So Bristol can do what they want and Cardiff can do its thing " Of course, but that's not a substitute to a discussion on the relative merits of the two approaches. Unfortunately, high rise can look very provincial ( in the pejorative sense of course). I think that's the case with Swansea. I don't think visitor's say " Oh look at that high rise........what an exciting city " Rather the opposite, sadly.

As for the stats, then the 2015 GVA per worker for Bristol is £54,873.46 ( 16/62) . Cardiff's GVA per worker is £44,781.008 ( 49/62). And Jantra's comments about the relatively large public sector in Cardiff illustrates the point even more forcefully.

None of this gives me the slightest pleasure, but I think some people in Cardiff really need to spend more time in other cities, or there's a danger of their believing theirown propaganda, which ultimately produces nothing good.

Perhaps we could also discuss trees and paving.Bristol has been very good in planting plane trees , which are now almost mature, providing a wonderful softening effect on the streetscape. Cf the depressing ,windswept, treeless appearance of Tyndall Street ( the JR Smart street). If the Council were a bit imaginative ( yes, I know) then they could achieve their aim of cutting down on traffic in Cardiff by digging up their ridiculous humps and bus lanes etc and simply NARROWING some roads, thus making the pavements wider and then planting lines of mature trees. Imagine how much better Tyndall St would look after that treatment. Go on, look at it now on Google earth, then imagine! Given the level of traffic on that road it's difficult to see why anyone ever thought it needed two lanes in the first place. But the workings of Cardiff Highways dept are beyond any rational analysis.

Cen. Not agreeing with you is hardly sufficient reason why I should not contribute here. Is it?!

"The taller modern buildings signify to me that Cardiff is a modern thriving city...."

I appreciate that's what you think. but the proposition is not self evident, and thus merits discussion. My view is the complete opposite; I think it can make a city look very provincial and tiresome.They also runs the distinct risk of littering the city with undistinguished virtually undemolishable buildings which we may look back on on in just a few years with the same sense of regret and embarrassment that we view so many of the noughties flats which were similarly bunged up on the back of a boom .